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YOSOLO Tuned.
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What's up fellow members, maybe you could shed some light on my "dilemma".

So I recently purchased and installed the following items from two different members of here on CRSX:

Used Polished RBC Intake Manifold /already cut for the K20a2.
Used Hondata Intake Manifold / already drilled for coolant port.
K-tuned Idle Air assists Delete "kit"
Used S90 70mm Throttle Body w/ New P2R Thermal 70mm gasket.
Karcepts 70mm TB adapter.
Koyo Dual core Radiator.
Gates Radiator Hose.


Installation Notes:
The throttle body came with all of the TB sensors already installed which also are used, so I decided to clean the used IACV with brake cleaner and I let it dry properly for a few hours on a very hot day.

I didn’t notice until I was trying to install the hose onto the IACV that there is an empty threaded vacuum port hole just above IACV. I tried removing the Vacuum port Nipple fitting off the old TB but it won’t come off for shit. Is that vacuum port necessary?

As of Now I have left it open but I have a feeling the IACV hose goes into that vacuum?
I routed the IACV vacuum hose onto the AEM CAI but I'm pretty sure it doesn’t go there, lol.

Anyways, that’s only half of my problems...

So I started the car and it immediately the RMP's began to fluctuate, and I knew it was the IACV but it's weird because I noticed the throttle cable was loose so after adjusting the TB now my car idle very low, from 500-650rmps and fluctuates.

I figured I screwed up with routing the vacuum hoses or something or that maybe the ECU (stock as of this very moment) needed to reset itself by driving somehow? (idk, my dad gave me the idea) So I drove it down the block only to discover that I'm reaching fuel cut off (limp mode) at 3000rpms.

Now, my father seems to think that it’s because I deleted the idle air assist valve. SO I have been searching relentlessly throughout the web for similar issues to no avail except I stumbled upon these two threads that seem rather interesting:

http://www.boostedk20.com/forums/showthread.php/347-DIY-Air-Assist-Valve-Delete-for-Upgraded-Injectors

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98906

The first thread mentions something about the idle air assist valve feeding air into the stock injectors.

The second thread mentions something about the Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket and the coolant port.

So my questions are, Why is car stuck in limp mode? could deleting the Idle air assist affect the fuel mixture due to special holes in the stock injectors?

Could it be that I need to calibrate the map sensor? Considering it came off a Turbo Build?

Was I supposed to plug the coolant port on the Intake manifold after deleting the idle air assist valve?

Where do I route the vacuum to coming from the IACV?

Do I need Kpro to use the RBC Manifold? Was told by a friend that I need to disable the secondary runners in Kpro to use the RBC mani. Is this true??

Pertaining the Throttle Body and IACV do I need to either:
A. Plug the hole in the throttle body or
B. Purchase a NPT Vacuum Nipple such as the one included with the Hybrid Racing Throttle body and route it somewhere?
Someone please help!!:pray:
 

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Nope, that is old school American V8 thinking (uhm, been there, done that back in the day).

Also, regular silicone is not O2 sensor safe, so would be a bad idea anyway.
 

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YOSOLO Tuned.
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
What exactly is the issue now?
Well long story short, My idle is very low and fluctuates, and my car is stuck in limp mode.

There is an un-occupied hole (threaded NTP vacuum port) that didn’t come with used throttle body and I have no idea where it's suppose to go to. I'm thinking it plugs into the IACV? I dont remember.




The Throttle body came off a turbo build so I'm thinking that maybe the Map sensor is off. Perhaps that would take care of the idle issue. The limp mode im just plain out confused :confused:
 

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The Cold Idle Assist thingy only makes a difference when the engine (coolant) is cold. Once the engine is warm, that valve closes and has no effect.

The port on the Intake manifold is not coolant, it is air. That must be plugged if you removed the Idle Air valve.

Uhm, I don't think there are any vacuum nipples on the stock TB. But there are two pipes that bring coolant to the area of the IACV (to warm the idle air). The port/nipple on your TB is no doubt for the IACV coolant/heat (that is what it is on the Hybrid TB that you mention). I would just plug that port/nipple on your new TB.

The IACV bolts directly to the TB and has no external air connections (at least that is true of mating it to the stock TB and Hybrid TB... I don't know anything about your TB, but it looks like it would work the same as stock).

Your MAP could be a 3-bar sensor for boost applications. Does it appear to be stock?

Only Base models have secondary runners. Your friend has been smoking VTEC fluid again.

You don't need K-Pro for the RBC, but you might for the TB (to calibrate the TPS and to compensate for the difference in size... a 70 mm at 10% open is vastly different than a 62 mm at 10% open)
 

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YOSOLO Tuned.
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The Cold Idle Assist thingy only makes a difference when the engine (coolant) is cold. Once the engine is warm, that valve closes and has no effect.

The port on the Intake manifold is not coolant, it is air. That must be plugged if you removed the Idle Air valve.

Uhm, I don't think there are any vacuum nipples on the stock TB. But there are two pipes that bring coolant to the area of the IACV (to warm the idle air). The port/nipple on your TB is no doubt for the IACV coolant/heat (that is what it is on the Hybrid TB that you mention). I would just plug that port/nipple on your new TB.

The IACV bolts directly to the TB and has no external air connections (at least that is true of mating it to the stock TB and Hybrid TB... I don't know anything about your TB, but it looks like it would work the same as stock).

Your MAP could be a 3-bar sensor for boost applications. Does it appear to be stock?

Only Base models have secondary runners. Your friend has been smoking VTEC fluid again.

You don't need K-Pro for the RBC, but you might for the TB (to calibrate the TPS and to compensate for the difference in size... a 70 mm at 10% open is vastly different than a 62 mm at 10% open)
LOL smoking vtec fluid :rotfl:, well he is a pot head so idk :ugh:

Thank's for the informative reply, where exactly is the plug you speak of that must be plugged? and what could I use to plug it?

I'm not sure if the map sensor is oem or not. How could you tell? is a 3-map sensor necessary for every turbo build or just an option?

How about the "limp mode" any ideas on what is causing it? I know the idle is one thing but the 3k limit is driving me nuts, lol. :banghead:

I'm going to upload a few pictures of my setup to see if you guys could spot anything wrong. I disassembled everything a week before puting the new stuff in so I forgot how all the stuff was suppose to go back :face:
 

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YOSOLO Tuned.
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Discussion Starter #13
Okay, so I was up all night reading many threads for similar issues. The information that I have gathered has led me to believe that there are two types of limp mode common to K series motors and Honda in general. The first one is 4000 Rpm rev limit which seems to be related to a malfunctioning Vtec solenoid, spark plugs or very low oil. The other type of limp mode that only allows a 3000 RPM limit seems to be related to the TPS Sensor malfunctioning or it needs to be recalibrated. Therefore, I believe my issue is coming from the TPS. Once I receive my Kpro tomorrow I will attempt to recalibrate the settings.

Could anyone share some advice or tips?
 

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Ignore the hole in the photo. That is for the heat/coolant line to heat up the area of the IACV and thus your idle air.
Looks like you connected a hose to the IACV. Why? That also is a coolant line to heat up the IACV (one for fluid in, one for fluid out). As I said above, there is no vacuum/air hose involved in an IACV; it directly mates to the TB.

Looks like an OEM MAP to me.
 

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Thank's for the informative reply, where exactly is the plug you speak of that must be plugged? and what could I use to plug it?
So you said that you removed the Idle Air Assist Valve (or whatever it is called); the thingy up by the front right corner of the valve cover that screws into the head and has one rubber hose going to the air cleaner and one to the intake manifold. If you really removed that thing, then you need to plug the nipple on the intake manifold that used to be connected to the IAAV (the nipple is close to the head next to one of the runners), else that is a vacuum leak. You can buy rubber caps for that short of thing at any auto parts store.

One could well ask why you would bother to remove it... This thing does not hurt performance, it just lets your car idle higher until it gets up to operating temperature. Maybe the boost guys block this off so they don't blow boost out of it... but that could only happen while the engine is cold, and you shouldn't be jumping on it then anyway (or maybe with extreme boost that valve gets forced open and leaks boost...). Anyway, if you are NA, I don't know of any reason to remove the Idle Air Assist Valve.
 

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YOSOLO Tuned.
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Ignore the hole in the photo. That is for the heat/coolant line to heat up the area of the IACV and thus your idle air.
Looks like you connected a hose to the IACV. Why? That also is a coolant line to heat up the IACV (one for fluid in, one for fluid out). As I said above, there is no vacuum/air hose involved in an IACV; it directly mates to the TB.

Looks like an OEM MAP to me.
So you said that you removed the Idle Air Assist Valve (or whatever it is called); the thingy up by the front right corner of the valve cover that screws into the head and has one rubber hose going to the air cleaner and one to the intake manifold. If you really removed that thing, then you need to plug the nipple on the intake manifold that used to be connected to the IAAV (the nipple is close to the head next to one of the runners), else that is a vacuum leak. You can buy rubber caps for that short of thing at any auto parts store.

One could well ask why you would bother to remove it... This thing does not hurt performance, it just lets your car idle higher until it gets up to operating temperature. Maybe the boost guys block this off so they don't blow boost out of it... but that could only happen while the engine is cold, and you shouldn't be jumping on it then anyway (or maybe with extreme boost that valve gets forced open and leaks boost...). Anyway, if you are NA, I don't know of any reason to remove the Idle Air Assist Valve.
Cool, thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if anything was suppose to be on the IACV or not because like I said I waited a week after I took everything out to put them back so I forgot the installation order. The vacuum port on the manifold is plugged. The reason I deleted the idle air assist valve was because I accidentally broke the plastic portion of the sensor and it was no longer useful.

Thanks again to everyone for baring with me through this ordeal, I try to be as informative as possible but sometimes I tend to get carried away with my writing. I have college to blame for that, lol.

One more thing, I've been reading around about the TPS calibrations but does anyone have any experience with the settings? Could you possibly give me some pointers? Thanks!
 

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The CRSX Philosopher
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3,796 Posts
i didnt read most of this, only to see what your problems are. on your idle air assist delete, did you pipe dope the fittings before installing? i would. the bouncing/low idle sounds like an IACV malfunction to me, i've been through this before. your TPS may need to be adjusted, kpro will help you do that. and that hole is for a coolant passage, dont worry about it. and whatever hose you hooked up to the intake, take it off, no hose goes to the intake from the intake. the only 2 that do, are 1 for the VC breather, the other from the Idle air assist, that you deleted.

EDIT - also, make sure MAP is a 1 bar sensor.
 
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