Acura RSX, ILX and Honda EP3 Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Must...stop...modding!!
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well, after looking at the Toda site, I see that to make the Spec B or Spec C cams work, would require the VTC killer cam pullies, a stand alone ECU, and the ITB and the high compression piston kit.

Money aside, because I know that alot of that stands in the way of getting this done, what kind of gains would someone see if they were using the say

...Spec B's with everything recommended by toda? What exactly do the VTC killer cam pullies do? I mean I know they eliminate VTC but to what advantage? Is the 12.9 :1 or even the 12.5:1 compression ridiculously high for the street to where 91 octane wont be able to let the engine realize its potential? Also, Im sure that the K series ITB's have not been dynoed yet, so what kind of gains did B series motors see with ITB?

Im pretty sure this is all just wishful thinking for me unless I hit the lottery, but will the car even be streetable at all? I know that idle is affected, but that really doesnt bother me....If i did happen to get all this stuff COULD I even maintain a little of the driveability factor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
VTC killer obviously removes the VTC pully on the intake side and it's sensors. You'll get a lighter setup for higher revving capabilities. You'll get better oil circulation through your motor because that's one less solenoid the oil has to pressure up. Toda designed their cams to operate solely on it's precision lobes, with VTC the computer can alter cam timing which will advance/retard the lobe actuating sequence, the "i" in i-Vtec. Another thing is, it's less stuff to worry about, makes your "race" motor more reliable when revving at 9k through the race cource.

Downside...you'll probably loose a lot of torque in the low end w/o VTC. Your emissions will go through the roof and you'll pollute like a muthafawker. With almost nearly 13:1 comp. 91 octane is a joke, not even a good idea. Will it still be streetable? Sure, I'm sure it will. Will it be legal on the street, HELL no :thumbsup: Is it a good idea on a daily driven car, simple answer: no.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,782 Posts
Go with the N+ cams instead, this way you retain VTC. Best of both worlds.

As far as high compression, it is possible to run 13:1 on 91 octane. The key is tuning. You'll be shelling out a lot of cash for compression this high, so you may as well do other things, like a stroker kit or custom cams.
 

·
Must...stop...modding!!
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Yeah, I know that there are a lot of downsides to possibly doing all of this. I was originally planning on getting the N spec cams pretty soon, but those ITB's are sexy! and OHHHH I want instant throttle response. Im just pretty unsure of what to do to the motor after the cams.....pullies will be on the list after that, possibly a higher compression ratio through pistons or a different head gasket....but then what? 2.4 liter block? P/P head?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,101 Posts
you could run ITBs with the N2 cams; K20EG over at H-T made 236 whp 162 wtq on a K20A2 with Toda kit (Spec-A cams), ITBs, and custom race header, and it still had room for improvement

the N2s have the same VTEC lift/duration as the Spec Bs so they should make the same amount of top-end power without losing the low end and VTC
 

·
Must...stop...modding!!
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
rsxmachine said:
you could run ITBs with the N2 cams; K20EG over at H-T made 236 whp 162 wtq on a K20A2 with Toda kit (Spec-A cams), ITBs, and custom race header, and it still had room for improvement

the N2s have the same VTEC lift/duration as the Spec Bs so they should make the same amount of top-end power without losing the low end and VTC
So what was all that stuff that TODA recommended for their use with the ITB's? Just a ploy to make more money?
So your saying that the ITB's could be used with the spec N2's? Is that car using a stand alone ECU?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
NxtLvlRSXtypeS said:
So what was all that stuff that TODA recommended for their use with the ITB's? Just a ploy to make more money?

TODA recommends a standalone engine management with their ITB's, so unless Motec, AEM EMS, Hondata k-pro, or Tec II are writing TODA checks, I don't think this is a "ploy" on TODA's behalf since they're telling you need parts made by other companies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,101 Posts
NxtLvlRSXtypeS said:
So what was all that stuff that TODA recommended for their use with the ITB's? Just a ploy to make more money?
So your saying that the ITB's could be used with the spec N2's? Is that car using a stand alone ECU?
ITBs are just a different intake setup, it doesn't necessarily mean you need different pistons and all that -- it had the Toda kit ECU program at the time, obviously with the Hondata programmable it could be tuned for more
 

·
Must...stop...modding!!
Joined
·
3,953 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
MugenDC2R said:
TODA recommends a standalone engine management with their ITB's, so unless Motec, AEM EMS, Hondata k-pro, or Tec II are writing TODA checks, I don't think this is a "ploy" on TODA's behalf since they're telling you need parts made by other companies.
I was talking about the cams (spec C or B), piston kit, and killer cam pullies that they recommend you use with the ITB's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
well you still need to get a standalone engine management for the ITBs anyways right? anyways how are the ITBs setup on the k20a2?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
itb works better with standalone dosent mean you need it...ive had itbs on b seris motor for a few years with and with out stand alone stand alone make more flat curve and more power ..but stock ecu works also still make more power but now perfect for daily drive...it tends to run rich on when you not giving it full throttle........see guys the thing about itbs are the do not draw enogh vacume on idle or half throttle .the map does not get good signal so it thinks that its wot and the tps is not on wot so the cpu does not know what to do makein it run rich...with stand alone you can change that map signal...works for me and all my guys useing my itbs..ive got about half a dozen sets out there on peoples cars and the love it the response and tq is always there......
 

·
Meow?
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
slowdelsol said:
..but stock ecu works also still make more power but now perfect for daily drive...
Okay, so you're saying that you are using individual throttle bodies with an all stock ECU? So what is your vacuum setup like?
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top