Acura RSX, ILX and Honda EP3 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 257 Posts

·
713
Joined
·
13,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
EDIT FOR VIDEO!! vid posted!
it could have gone higher than 3500 rpm but i let off cuz the car started to move.

http://media.putfile.com/RSX-Auto-IPT-high-stall-3500rpm
http://media.putfile.com/RSX-auto-0-100mph-going-up-freeway-ramp

EDIT: PICS OF IPT RACE BUILT TRANS ON PAGE 7!!

well after much delay, i decided to go ahead and write the review and experiences. some factual imformation taken from IPT's site and with the help of IPT's John Lombardo and "Titanium" John Lampiris, explain how TC's work.

What: Import Performance Transmissions (IPTtrans.com) custom high stall torque converter

Torque Converter Operation Explained

The torque converter is one of the least understood components in an automatic transmission equipped vehicle. I will attempt to explain what it does and how it does it.

The torque converter has a few different functions. The first function of the converter is to connect the crankshaft and the input shaft so the engine can move the vehicle; this is accomplished through the utilization of a fluidic coupling effect. The torque converter also replaces the clutch that is required in a manual transmission; this is how an automatic transmission vehicle can come to a stop while still being in gear without stalling the engine. The torque converter also acts as a torque multiplier, or extra gear ratio, to help the car get moving from a stop. In modern day converters this theoretical ratio is anywhere between 2:1 and 3:1.

*theres more info but not really needed to know so i'll skip to the good stuff*

High-Stall Torque Converter

A high stall converter differs from a stock converter in the sense that the rpm is raised at which the internal converter components- the impeller, the stator and the turbine start to turn together, and hence, stop the torque multiplication phase and begin the coupling phase. The point at which engine rpm will stop climbing with the drive wheels held stationary and the throttle fully opened is referred to as “stall speed”.

The idea behind a higher stall torque converter is to allow the engine to rev more freely up to the point where the powerband begins, and therefore, enable the vehicle to accelerate from a stop under more power.

This becomes increasingly important when an engine is modified. Engine modifications such as ported heads, bigger cams, bigger turbos (in some cases), bigger intakes, etc. tend to raise the point where the powerband begins. For best performance, the stall speed needs to be raised accordingly to work optimally in conjunction with the given vehicle alterations.

John Lombardo
IPT Performance Transmissions
http://www.importperformancetrans.com
John Lombardo, a.k.a. Transdude, is owner of IPT Performance Transmissions and has been in the transmission and high performance industry for over 20 years.

Heres the RSX TC


PRICE: $479+shipping + cost of labor for someone to drop the tranny, swap TC's, and reinstall tranny. Takes usually 5-7 business days to complete.

the TC is taken apart, and stronger components are installed, carbon fiber clutches, bands, parts are installed to replace the weaker stock components. No component is left untouched/unmodified/untreated.

MY REVIEW:
Well from my sig, u guys know i'm boosted. The main problem with the stock TC on the RSX, as with most autos, is the lag in acceleration. As if something is holding on preventing the rpms to climb as fast as a manual. After a couple weeks with IPT's high stall tc, i would say its THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK ON THE AUTO!

Modded, boosted, or even stock, this thing is night/day difference. The rpms climb so much faster from a stop and u reach peak power a lot faster making commute a lot more fun. To take advantage of "stall speed". You brake launch. Hold brake all the way and floor the accelerator til the rpm needle stops moving, then let off the brake and break loose.

WARNING: Even with a upgraded TC, you need a tranny ATF cooler. u can use any oil cooler. I recommend either B&M or Tru-Cool LPD. High stalling creates massive amount of heat in the tranny that needs to be cooled to prevent damage to other parts of the tranny. IPT also recommends switching the Honda Z1 ATF to Amsoil's Synthetic ATF to better deal with heat and oil break down. Amsoil is the ONLY kind they recommend on Honda tranny. I've done some research and and other Honda/Acura's have had good experience using Amsoil. Redline ATF caused harder shifts.

Since i'm supposedly the "test dummy", i bought a whole spare auto tranny w/ 19k miles on it. i had the tranny shipped directly to IPT so they can work on the TC and i dont have to have downtime.

The stock stall speed is around 2,320 RPM, my TC's stalled as high as 3500 on the first time i tried it out. boy, did my tires smoke up. Usually i see close of 3000rpm stalls now. (Yes, i need to video:jigglemad)

WRX/DSM/VW guys have been using these high stall TC's for quite some time now. Typical results show a decrease of .4-1 second off their 1/4mi times!

As for daily driving, the car is definitely something different. i CANNOT imagine going back to the stock TC. the car accelerates up smoothly and effortlessly. Off the line, the car just GOES. No more laggy feeling off the line. Since rpms climb up so fast, the turbo spools up hella quicker too. Traction in 1st from a dig is just hell. Should definitley help me at the track. I FREAKING LOVE IT! The tranny seems to shift a tad quicker too.

The Install Process

Its no easy task. With the help of st00pidFast's crew, they were able to remove the turbo piping, drop subframe, tranny, ATF, etc within 3 days. (could have been a 1-day job but it was a busy weekend for them). Since i had a spare TC that was built, i didnt have the 1wk+ downtime.

I would not recommend anyone trying to remove/install the TC themselves as they would need a lift and air tools.

Since i have a leftover TC, i can arrange a deal with IPT that allows those who are interested, to avoid having downtime. IPT will rebuild the RSX TC they have in hand, send it to you, you swap it out, and send YOUR stock TC back to IPT. Now since i'm providing the TC, i MIGHT charge a core deposit. I will refund upon reciept of stock TC in return.

Jaguer8 will be the first one to try out the high stall TC on a N/A application pending the completion of my race transmission, which i'm about to explain.

IPT's Overhaul Race Tranny Upgrade:
* Control Valve Assemblies are custom calibrated to provide firm, positive shifts
* All shaft bushings are replaced with sintered bronze aftermarket bushings to provide maximum hydraulic integrity in the clutch apply circuits
* Reverse gear, fourth gear, and reverse selector on the countershaft are replaced with new Honda parts
* Reverse fork is replaced with a new Honda part
* New hardened differential cross shaft is installed
* New one-way clutches/sprags are installed
* Main shaft, countershaft and secondary shaft (where applicable) are Metalax stress relieved to reduce the incidence of breakage
* Transfer gears and differential ring gear are Metalaxed to reduce fracturing
* Premium quality friction and steel plates are installed (type of clutches and manufacturer depend on application)

This is the total racing tranny. Will be able to take anything u throw at it. The cost for this is upwards of $3400. Not a worthwhile investment if u're not boosted, but it is STILL a night/day difference. The valve body, the brain of the auto tranny, is modified to make FIRM and QUICK shifts. It directs hydraulic pressure to the appropriate clutches and bands at the right time to initiate upshifts, down shifts, selection of reverse, converter clutch application, etc. As well as controlling shift timing and shift quality, it is also responsible for directing hydraulic pressure to the cooler and the lubrication circuit.The idea is to raise this pressure only slightly at light throttle but increase it by 30-40% at full throttle- where it is really needed. The effects of this are shifts that are not overly uncomfortable at lower throttle openings, while at heavier throttle, firm shifts with much shorter clutch application time and increased clamping force can be achieved.

An additional benefit of this is increased flow through the transmission's cooler and lube system.

Secondly, hydraulic pressure is normally routed through an orifice in a metal "separator plate" that resides between the two halves of the valve body before it gets to its intended destination. By altering these orifices, we can increase the volume of hydraulic oil that is used to apply the various clutches and bands.

The final part of modification is the alteration of the accumulator circuits. These are hydraulic circuits that are parallel to the components that are used for shifting. Their function is to absorb or "accumulate" some of the hydraulic pressure that is intended to apply a clutch pack or band. By limiting the action of what is essentially a "shock absorber" for each shift, we are able to further reduce clutch lock up time and shift lag at wide open throttle.

The end result is that shift time is reduced by 30 to 80%, depending on the amount of acceptable shift feel and the intended application. The clamping force that is required to apply the clutches and bands is increased by 30 to 40% at full throttle. Flow through the cooler and lube circuit is increased and the converter clutch application time is also reduced.
The rest of my spare auto tranny is about to be cracked open this week to start the build.

Once i get it, i'm gona be using Amsoil ATF with it.

Things u can/should do while the tranny is dropped:
-Install Energy Suspension Motor Mounts
-INstall tranny cooler

Extra things u need to buy:
-Honda Z1 or Amsoil ATF, minimum of 8qts needed.

Sorry for the jumbled information, i'm typing this off the top of my head as i go along. And also, i still haven't got 1/4mi times up for it and vids either. I'll try to track times and vid made asap. will update in this thread.

Here the pics: (pics were taken by my installer, i have NO IDEA who the ppl in the pics are, lol)

IPT's heat-treated exterior TC vs. stock TC


TC-less tranny


Tranny-less Motor


^NOT ME!

SPECIAL THANKS TO: "Titanium" John Lampiris aka Ty, helped me through the way and will continue to help if any problems arise.

i'm gona repost this in the tranny forum.

UPDATE:
They finished the tranny already. LOL
Why they finished my tranny so fast?

I just got off the phone with Ty. They had already started on it long before i told them i was interested. the RSX tranny was the first tranny that they have worked on that has the Sportshift mechanisms/solenoids. These types of auto trannies are much more compact than the traditional kind.

They've concluded that the RSX auto tranny is VERY much like a manual trans, except that instead of synchros, there are a bunch of clutch packs. the stock clutch packs were all thrown out, and stronger ones were put in and even extras were put in to provide a ton more holding power. (rated at 300+lbs of torque).

The gears were cryogentically treated, and then i got lost on some of the things he said. lol, but the main thing was the valve body upgrade. The VB is built into the tranny casing, so they had to rework the innards of the tranny casing (without compromising the structural integrity) to where it will pump ATF in a different manner, getting rid of the sloshyness and the lag in shifting ENTIRELY. (or at least almost).

Rougher ride quality? Probably yes, but not more than the feeling of a manual. Just the feeling of FIRMER shifts.

Ty was mistaken, the TC that i sent in was NOT done yet. But the tranny is already done. They have quite a hardworking crew there at IPT. i was surprised to get calls from Ty on a saturday at 8PM Central time. (IPT is in NJ, time=??)

But yes, its starting to sound reaal good!
 

·
I can drive up your rsx
Joined
·
29,088 Posts
Great write-up. Your right how most are unaware of upgraded Torque Converters. I looked into them when I had my teg which was auto.
 

·
Complete Part Out
Joined
·
16,861 Posts
great read man, i've been waiting for you to post up info on your tranny build. you are definitely making strides for those other base owners. i can't wait to see this tranny in action.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
nice write up :thumbsup:

i really wanna put one of these on my rsx. i gotta guy that said he could do the install but i really wanna know if its worth it. would i be able to hit mid to low 15s in the 1/4? if so id be really interested in one sometime in the future. will they be producing alot of these?
 

·
713
Joined
·
13,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
sleepin02rsx said:
nice write up :thumbsup:

i really wanna put one of these on my rsx. i gotta guy that said he could do the install but i really wanna know if its worth it. would i be able to hit mid to low 15s in the 1/4? if so id be really interested in one sometime in the future. will they be producing alot of these?
15's is definitely possible. They are not going to mass produce. They are made per application. Depending on ur setup/power range, they will modify to fit it best. But if u happen to upgrade/downgrade HP/engine output, it will still work just fine.
 

·
Complete Part Out
Joined
·
16,861 Posts
03DSM-RSX said:
thanks seth, i cant wait to hit the track. i'ma try to do it before the race tranny goes in. trying to get before/after race tranny results also.

just gota new baby sister, so i'm stuck at home 95% of the time now.
you could really tear up the track if that tranny weren't holding you back so much. i saw those vids, and the pause between shifts was killer. but i guess you didn't want to kill your tranny too quick, lol
 

·
Spank a ho
Joined
·
4,923 Posts
WOOT WOOT for the Joe man. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And thanks for starting the chain of extra TC. I'm starting a job soon and I think I know where the first paycheck is going to.
 

·
Wanna see my war face?
Joined
·
9,528 Posts
ROFL at pic of you inside engine bay
 

·
713
Joined
·
13,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
seth812 said:
you could really tear up the track if that tranny weren't holding you back so much. i saw those vids, and the pause between shifts was killer. but i guess you didn't want to kill your tranny too quick, lol
yup, that long pause is killing me but was needed cuz i didnt want to break the stock tranny. The race tranny is coming to take care of that :) and the vid was of was when i had stock TC. its better now with the upgraded TC, but theres still a bit of lag.

lol, again, ITS NOT ME IN THE ENGINE BAY!!!
 

·
Complete Part Out
Joined
·
16,861 Posts
joe, i know there's an advantage to an auto transmission in those big, drag dedicated domestic cars. is there the same advantage here? are people going to be running these trannies over the stock 5 or 6 spd?



and when are you putting a built motor in there :flame:
 

·
713
Joined
·
13,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
seth812 said:
joe, i know there's an advantage to an auto transmission in those big, drag dedicated domestic cars. is there the same advantage here? are people going to be running these trannies over the stock 5 or 6 spd?

and when are you putting a built motor in there :flame:
those dragging domestics have only 3spds.

now with the certain tranny build i'm doing, its for the daily driver and weekend drag monsters. main thing about it has HOLDING POWER, and can put the power to the ground as good as a manual. The torque converter upgrade alone makes the "auto tranny power drainage" seem like there is none in the first place.

auto Supras have these trannies and have hit 8's with it. WRX's have great experience with. 9sec DSM's have used IPT's tranny also. The tranny will be competition to a manual gearbox if u're comparing the same cars, same power.

I've already considered long and hard about whether or not to do this race tranny vs. 5/6spd manual swap. u would think the manual swap is cheaper, but after some researching, even with the cheapest parts u can find, its still a ton of work and headache. (which i dont like). Veilsider swapped his auto to manual, and the end cost was almost $5k. Thats a k20a w/ 6spd+LSD , a2/k24 frank w/ a2 6spd, full-race turbo kit, etc etc.

I loved how the TC upgrade alone worked, so i might as well do the complete overhaul b/c i plan on keeping this car and continue to build. get the tranny part out of the way and its no more worries for it.

After this is all done and paid for, I'm gona look into the a3 stroker kit and build the motor/valvetrain for higher boost, then after that, look at my options for higher boost. whether to try and upgrade the turbo, or the entire turbo kit to full-race. DAMN THIS LIFELONG MONEY PIT! :deadhorse

who knows, i might just stop after the tranny is in b/c i might be satisfied. lol

The tranny takes about 5 days for the rebuild. After that, its whenever i can get free time to get my buddy to swap out the tranny. so within the month i'd say. *fingers crossed*
 

·
Spank a ho
Joined
·
4,923 Posts
Since you order it to your specification do you jsut tell them what hp you think your going to be making and wha you use it for? I was thinking of going for as fast NA as I can get.
so I/H/E/RBC/IMG/type-sTB/Strokerkit/Cams/KPRO. I have no idea what kind of power I would be looking at though.
 

·
REP TEH BOOBIES!!
Joined
·
5,819 Posts
wow the review is finally up, good job! :thumbsup: can't wait for vid's also can't really wait for race tranny! :D Good job on your car! That's one hell of a sleeper you got there! I'm sure people laugh when they say your auto, but then you go wot and that smile of there's becomes tears of pain!
 
1 - 20 of 257 Posts
Top