Acura RSX, ILX and Honda EP3 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 47 Posts

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
you cannot compare a dynojet graph to a dynapack graph,PERIOD!The dynapack shows every little spike. I can change it to where it wont show it, but thats not my goal. I want to be as honest as possible and there is nothing fishy about our baseline.

Also, that dynojet graph is STD, not SAE. SAE reads lower STD is higher

Also, gas is different here then it is in GA

The results speak for themselves

If youd like, you can send your motor, ecu and stock parts and ill run the baseline on the dynapack

Then ill throw on your cai, our header and our exhaust, and you will see the big gains.

So which shipping company will you use?

Mikey
 

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
also, look at the torque values to the left on the dynapack and compare it to mine. There is a wider range of data compared to mine

Mikey
 

·
frank and beans!
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
you cannot compare a dynojet graph to a dynapack graph,PERIOD!The dynapack shows every little spike. I can change it to where it wont show it, but thats not my goal. I want to be as honest as possible and there is nothing fishy about our baseline.

Also, that dynojet graph is STD, not SAE. SAE reads lower STD is higher

Also, gas is different here then it is in GA

The results speak for themselves

If youd like, you can send your motor, ecu and stock parts and ill run the baseline on the dynapack

Then ill throw on your cai, our header and our exhaust, and you will see the big gains.

So which shipping company will you use?

Mikey

sorry if you took it the wrong way. I wasn't attempting to compare dynojet to dynapack (hence I linked to a dyno sheet from a dynapack out in cali that also had the healthy low end torque with similar peak HP numbers - SAE hp numbers that is). I was just observing that the baseline's low end torque output seemed off the pace. Who knows, if you figure out what's up with that, you might make even more power. get it?

I'm not questioning the integrity of the dyno, but if there were issues with the car, that should be addressed. Every car is different, every dyno is different blah blah blah, I'm just stating that the torque curve looks off by more than what would be considered normal. I say this b/c I have seen many stock base RSX's dyno on both dynapacks & dynojets and virtually all of them made peak torque down low on the first torque hump.

take it for what it's worth.

My motor is a k20a3 from a civic si and i've already baselined it with 155+hp with i/h/e/ (stock cams) tuned on a dynojet. If i want verification on dynapacks, there are locations within driving distance I could visit.
 

·
frank and beans!
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
also, look at the torque values to the left on the dynapack and compare it to mine. There is a wider range of data compared to mine

Mikey


@ 4000 rpm - your dyno is at 100ft-lb
@ 4000 rpm - his dyno is at 115ft-lb

@ 4500 rpm - your dyno is at less than 100ft-lb!!!
@ 4500 rpm - his dyno is at 110ft-lb

the fundamental shape of the curve is altered there. Regardless of scaling. if you look at it, you will observe that the bottom fell out on your baseline's torque numbers in that region. Everything from 5000 up looks fine.
 

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
chunky said:
sorry if you took it the wrong way. I wasn't attempting to compare dynojet to dynapack (hence I linked to a dyno sheet from a dynapack out in cali that also had the healthy low end torque with similar peak HP numbers - SAE hp numbers that is). I was just observing that the baseline's low end torque output seemed off the pace. Who knows, if you figure out what's up with that, you might make even more power. get it?

I'm not questioning the integrity of the dyno, but if there were issues with the car, that should be addressed. Every car is different, every dyno is different blah blah blah, I'm just stating that the torque curve looks off by more than what would be considered normal. I say this b/c I have seen many stock base RSX's dyno on both dynapacks & dynojets and virtually all of them made peak torque down low on the first torque hump.

take it for what it's worth.

My motor is a k20a3 from a civic si and i've already baselined it with 155+hp with i/h/e/ (stock cams) tuned on a dynojet. If i want verification on dynapacks, there are locations within driving distance I could visit.
Good stuff. I just took the car, baselined it with stock parts, and then used the provided CAI, the owners kpro and our header and exhaust and did a full tune. I would have loved to hit 170, but it just didnt happen. Stock was low, i admit it, but i ran it 4 times and it did the same. I checked all parts on the car and did a compression check, everything registered ok.

Is there a link to where there is a head comparison between the si and the a3 head? I know some people put the type-s intake manifold on a base rsx and lost a lot of low end torque. Thats why I said the head is different.

155 is good for a si motor, but i bet it would make more with a long tube tri-y header like ours

Mikey
 

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
chunky said:
@ 4000 rpm - your dyno is at 100ft-lb
@ 4000 rpm - his dyno is at 115ft-lb

@ 4500 rpm - your dyno is at less than 100ft-lb!!!
@ 4500 rpm - his dyno is at 110ft-lb

the fundamental shape of the curve is altered there. Regardless of scaling. if you look at it, you will observe that the bottom fell out on your baseline's torque numbers in that region. Everything from 5000 up looks fine.
Well, thats just that particular motor then, what can i say? But you get the point, torque and hp are increased greatly. I have asked other base owners around the area and this owner was the really the only one that was worthy of helping me out as I helped him out. There was one point where I had the car for over a week for the first prototype (which actually worked excellent)

Now that the base is taken care of, im working on the tri-y for the type-s, and oh I'm really hoping i get some nice gains overall, but i know peak would probably be the same.

But in the end, it is all in the tune. Hence that is why I provide my calibration with our header, although it isnt necessary to have k-pro, but having k-pro, this setup and this calibration would show max gains

Mikey
 

·
frank and beans!
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
Good stuff. I just took the car, baselined it with stock parts, and then used the provided CAI, the owners kpro and our header and exhaust and did a full tune. I would have loved to hit 170, but it just didnt happen. Stock was low, i admit it, but i ran it 4 times and it did the same. I checked all parts on the car and did a compression check, everything registered ok.

Is there a link to where there is a head comparison between the si and the a3 head? I know some people put the type-s intake manifold on a base rsx and lost a lot of low end torque. Thats why I said the head is different.

155 is good for a si motor, but i bet it would make more with a long tube tri-y header like ours

Mikey
I've worked on both the base RSX and civic si a3 heads. they're the same castings. The low end torque loss is from the intake manifold. Longer runners = BIG low end torque. That is the whole gist of what i'm saying here. every base RSX i've seen has a healthy bump in low end torque. The heads are identical. the cams are the same part # for earlier model a3's (they have 2 different part #'s now).

155 sounds good for an si motor until you hear that there are guys who have put down 170 on a3 motors with stock cams!
 

·
frank and beans!
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
Well, thats just that particular motor then, what can i say? But you get the point, torque and hp are increased greatly. I have asked other base owners around the area and this owner was the really the only one that was worthy of helping me out as I helped him out. There was one point where I had the car for over a week for the first prototype (which actually worked excellent)

Now that the base is taken care of, im working on the tri-y for the type-s, and oh I'm really hoping i get some nice gains overall, but i know peak would probably be the same.

But in the end, it is all in the tune. Hence that is why I provide my calibration with our header, although it isnt necessary to have k-pro, but having k-pro, this setup and this calibration would show max gains

Mikey
there are definitely gains in with the header & exhaust. any chance of you dyno'ing each piece separately? i.e. stock, then stock + exhaust, then stock + header? The reason I ask is because the exhaust may be losing power at one point, but the header makes up for it so you can't tell what is doing what. It might help you to tweak the design a bit too.
 

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
no one has their stock parts and are willing to leave the car for couple of days for testing.

So its not my fault guys. I definitely know for a fact that the exhaust isn't loosing at any point and its not worth my time and effort to do everything seperatly. remember, these are cars that people lended to me for a limited time, so bear with me

Mikey
 

·
Boost is Better.
Joined
·
5,502 Posts
very impressive number with those mods...damn i need to dyno too. :spin:
 

·
K-Series Enthusiast
Joined
·
801 Posts
Today I wrapped up the prototype for the Type-S Tri-Y. We are now only waiting for delivery of the transition to arrive so we can button it up and do some testing.

We would like to find an EP3 to test our design on. Time will tell the actual performance gains, but preliminary testing shows very good pickup over the power band. The Base RSX/Civic-Si is a much scarcer market than that of the Type-S, so rest assured we will make a tremendous effort to advance this aftermarket.

Final note I would like to point out. It is unsettling to see people comparing and guessing at the differences between dynos, corrections, etc. SAE correction is targeted at optimum dyno conditions. with unsually high temperatures, elevations, and humidity, corrected numbers become skewed towards the positive. cheated dyno numbers, whether intentional or accidental, do happen. A car that makes 160 on a good day, could make 170 or more on a day with low baro, high air temps, and high humidity. I say this just to remind everyone that all numbers are relative. SAE vs. STD, DynoJet vs. DynaPack, etc.

I personally acquired a type S last week, so it will be our test bed for protyping and testing. We dont have this luxury for the base at this time, so we are at the mercy of our test car(s), and their generous owner(s)...
 

·
713
Joined
·
13,138 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
the tune is not necessary, you will get gains even on the auto, but not maximum

Mikey
yah tuning is not necessary, but i just really wana see this header vs. the DCRH. if possible, would u guys like me to test it out on my auto? i'll provide dynos comparing the both.

i would compare with my current setup and get it dyno tuned with my safc2:

i will provide dynos of current setup plus:

DCRH w/o safc2 tune
DCRH w/ current tune
HardcoreRH w/o tune
HardcoreRH w/ retune safc2 (tuning will be done by Silverbeast (ricky))

i'll pay for the dyno time and stuff if you guys provide the header :).
 

·
I don't know you
Joined
·
16,615 Posts
u boys could borrow my car for as long as u want, base a3 5 spd, all stock parts except for es mm inserts (injen cai is in the mail, so u can toy with that as well). as long as u can find me a beater so i can get to and from school. regardless, im interested in your parts as soon as those a3 cams are avaiilable. and justin, im in torrance right now, ill give you a call in a few hrs
 

·
EFI Tuning Professional
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
03DSM-RSX said:
yah tuning is not necessary, but i just really wana see this header vs. the DCRH. if possible, would u guys like me to test it out on my auto? i'll provide dynos comparing the both.

i would compare with my current setup and get it dyno tuned with my safc2:

i will provide dynos of current setup plus:

DCRH w/o safc2 tune
DCRH w/ current tune
HardcoreRH w/o tune
HardcoreRH w/ retune safc2 (tuning will be done by Silverbeast (ricky))

i'll pay for the dyno time and stuff if you guys provide the header :).
I'll take that into consideration

Mikey
 

·
A/F master
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
Keep me updated on the 4-2-1 header Mikey
 

·
A/F master
Joined
·
2,828 Posts
HardcoreRsxS said:
You should have a dyno graph by Friday night

Mikey
and production will be??? I know it probaly won't be for a couple months but I'm very interested I think there is more power to be had from switching from my JRRH and I'd like to get my numbers up a bit before going IPS K2
 
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
Top