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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I asked that question in another thread, but think it's important enough to warrant an authoritative answer: How can one get the stock Honda calibration back?

Why would we want that? Because only the stock calibration will produce the CVN (Calibration Verification Number) that very well may become an important issue as we move into an ever more CARB-regulated future. Or one might want to bring the car for service and make it appear as stock as possible.

The K-Pro does NOT come with the Honda stock calibration maps. I asked about that at the Hondata seminar, and Matt I think said there would be too many parameters to make that available as a calibration on the K-Pro.

I don't understand that because for a small fee Hondata returns a reflashed ECU back to stock for you. Once that is done I presume the ECU will then produce the stock Calibration Verification Number that you may need at some point. Wouldn't it be a simple matter of downloading the stock Honda calibration and save it?

Those who send in a stock, non-reflashed ECU for a K-Pro upgrade apparently get it back in stock form, without any of the new calibrations loaded, which means you could probably then download and save the stock Honda calibration before loading one of the optimized calibrations that come with the K-Pro.

However, existing reflash customers who send in their ECU for an upgrade have no access to the stock calibration, and I really would like to have the stock Honda calibration available.
 

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riiiiiiight
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conradb212 said:
I asked that question in another thread, but think it's important enough to warrant an authoritative answer: How can one get the stock Honda calibration back?

Why would we want that? Because only the stock calibration will produce the CVN (Calibration Verification Number) that very well may become an important issue as we move into an ever more CARB-regulated future.

The K-Pro does NOT come with the Honda stock calibration maps. I asked about that at the Hondata seminar, and Matt I think said there would be too many parameters to make that available as a calibration on the K-Pro.

I don't understand that because for a small fee Hondata returns a reflashed ECU back to stock for you. Once that is done I presume the ECU will then produce the stock Calibration Verification Number that you may need at some point. Wouldn't it be a simple matter of downloading the stock Honda calibration and save it?

Those who send in a stock, non-reflashed ECU for a K-Pro upgrade apparently get it back in stock form, without any of the new calibrations loaded, which means you could probably then download and save the stock Honda calibration before loading one of the optimized calibrations that come with the K-Pro.

However, existing reflash customers who send in their ECU for an upgrade have no access to the stock calibration, and I really would like to have the stock Honda calibration available.
I second this...I would buy the k-pro if it was available with a COMPLETELY stock flash to start with (not a hondata optimized flash)...my reasons being that I am getting a cybernation kit installed next week and my current #4 flash will NOT work with the cybernation kit and from what I've seen neither will any of the other flashes that come with the k-pro...what I want to do is load a STOCK flash...get the car up and running with the cybernation kit just like I would normally and THEN go and get it tuned, but it may be a few weeks or even a month before I could go get it tuned...so here I am stuck with a dilemma...if I can't get a stock flash to load on a k-pro I'm going to end up just selling my #4 flashed ECU this week or having it reflashed to stock by acura...
 

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EFI Tuning Professional
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Nossy said:
I second this...I would buy the k-pro if it was available with a COMPLETELY stock flash to start with (not a hondata optimized flash)...my reasons being that I am getting a cybernation kit installed next week and my current #4 flash will NOT work with the cybernation kit and from what I've seen neither will any of the other flashes that come with the k-pro...what I want to do is load a STOCK flash...get the car up and running with the cybernation kit just like I would normally and THEN go and get it tuned, but it may be a few weeks or even a month before I could go get it tuned...so here I am stuck with a dilemma...if I can't get a stock flash to load on a k-pro I'm going to end up just selling my #4 flashed ECU this week or having it reflashed to stock by acura...
I believe when talking to Chris Dye on saturday, it will come with a stock tune, but dont take my word for it. Your best bet would be to call Doug or Derek or email them and ask them if it does come with one.

So pat, you get ur kit in? When you do get it and hopefully ull get slicks, we can hit fontana up and see whos faster! uh huh uh huh huh :laughing:

peace out
HARDCORE mikey
 

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HardcoreRsxS said:
I believe when talking to Chris Dye on saturday, it will come with a stock tune, but dont take my word for it. Your best bet would be to call Doug or Derek or email them and ask them if it does come with one.

So pat, you get ur kit in? When you do get it and hopefully ull get slicks, we can hit fontana up and see whos faster! uh huh uh huh huh :laughing:

peace out
HARDCORE mikey
ya the kit came yesterday supposed to drop the car off monday....hu uhuh uh huhuh uhuhhhu

according to hondata it comes with a "Stock" flash...but this stock flash is dyno tuned which means advanced timing and therefore not good for what I need...

eh I can't afford the cost of the k-pro PLUS the tuning costs that will be involved anyways...not with everything else I've gotten
 

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Vendor
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Nossy said:
I second this...I would buy the k-pro if it was available with a COMPLETELY stock flash to start with (not a hondata optimized flash)...my reasons being that I am getting a cybernation kit installed next week and my current #4 flash will NOT work with the cybernation kit and from what I've seen neither will any of the other flashes that come with the k-pro...what I want to do is load a STOCK flash...get the car up and running with the cybernation kit just like I would normally and THEN go and get it tuned, but it may be a few weeks or even a month before I could go get it tuned...so here I am stuck with a dilemma...if I can't get a stock flash to load on a k-pro I'm going to end up just selling my #4 flashed ECU this week or having it reflashed to stock by acura...
The answer is simple.

Within the next week we will be adding a stock calibration to the software.

That is stock ignition, fuel cam angle RPM, VTEC etc.

It will be better in many respects for a boosted engine as you will be able to switch off the closed loop under boost function the stock ECU has.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hondata said:
Within the next week we will be adding a stock calibration to the software.
That is stock ignition, fuel cam angle RPM, VTEC etc.
That's good news. Thanks! I presume the stock calibration will then return the proper VCN should it ever be needed.
 

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conradb212 said:
That's good news. Thanks! I presume the stock calibration will then return the proper VCN should it ever be needed.
No, because it cannot be programmable and have the stock CVN at the same time. We can make sure all the major tables are the same, but the datalogging and programming routines all change the CVN.
 

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Mental Midget Fighter
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No it will not. The only way to do this is to remove the K-Pro and have the ecu reflashed completely back to stock.

conradb212 said:
That's good news. Thanks! I presume the stock calibration will then return the proper VCN should it ever be needed.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hondata said:
No, because it cannot be programmable and have the stock CVN at the same time. We can make sure all the major tables are the same, but the datalogging and programming routines all change the CVN.
I see. I assume this means that the CVN is a checksum figure that depends on more than just the calibration tables as I had originally thought. So if you change ANYTHING, even if it's only a software interface to the external K-Pro Manager, the check sum will change even if the actual ECU calibration were completely stock. (With the possible, but unlikely, fix of hacking things so that K-Pro is offset by a correction value that will yield the original checksum with the stock calibration.)

Which means that if and when the day comes when during emission checks they compare that figure against what it should be for a given engine, all we can do is have the ECU intercept that request and return whatever the proper value is. It sort of bites that the same state that originated the import tuner movement that sells billions worth of cars and parts also is the state that most vigorously seeks to restrict and regulate that movement.
 

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This is kinda off topic, but how difficult is it to use the interface.I mean do you just reinstall the ecu, load the software onto the laptop, plug it into the USB port on the ecu, start the program, and then its self explainatory form there? Do you just clik on an icon that says like base maps, highlight the map you want, and click upload or what?
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thatguywiththersx said:
This is kinda off topic, but how difficult is it to use the interface.I mean do you just reinstall the ecu, load the software onto the laptop, plug it into the USB port on the ecu, start the program, and then its self explainatory form there? Do you just clik on an icon that says like base maps, highlight the map you want, and click upload or what?
Yes, that's pretty much the way it is. The interface is clean and simple. However, if you want to do tuning yourself, a complete and total understanding of how it all fits together--fuel, ignition, cam angles--is imperative.
 

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I do have a general understaning of tuning, but i have no intentions what so ever of attempting to do the tuning myself using the K-pro. I just simply want to purchase it and switch to the base map that is closest to my setup every time i install new mods until i get a chance to have it professionally tuned. This is assunming that new maps will be created since it only has 8 right now i believe. It comes with hondata #4 already loaded onto it ( or something similar) went it is sent back to you, correct? So i could get all the benifits of hondata #4 just by installing the ecu hondata sends back to me while i load the software on my laptop and fget used to the interface right?
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hondata said:
The answer is simple.

Within the next week we will be adding a stock calibration to the software.

That is stock ignition, fuel cam angle RPM, VTEC etc.

It will be better in many respects for a boosted engine as you will be able to switch off the closed loop under boost function the stock ECU has.
I was wondering when this completely stock/factory calibration will be added.
 

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Mental Midget Fighter
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There will not be a stock calibration that produces the OEM cvn. There may be a stock map coming that has the stock vtec and revlimits and timing, but it will not be the same program that come from your honda/acura dealer.

conradb212 said:
I was wondering when this completely stock/factory calibration will be added.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Spunkster said:
There will not be a stock calibration that produces the OEM cvn. There may be a stock map oin that it has the stock vtec and revlimits and timing, but it will not be the same program that come from your honda/acura dealer.
I know that. Doug said that even the exact factory calibration maps will not generate the proper CVN. He did not explain why, so I assume the presence of the K-Pro interface somehow interferes with the generation of the number. Still, he said that the factory calibrations will be available next week, and that was a while ago. I would really like to have those factory calibrations and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to be part of the calibration map library.
 

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So besides not being able to return the OEM CVN, are all the maps and calibrations the exact thing to a brand new car on the dealers lot? I want to get the Kpro and run the emanage with the stock calibration until I can get on a dyno and fine tune it. Plus I like the idea of the whole closed/open loop thing....much more reliable and not so much worrying. I can justify spending the extra money for the Kpro for just that alone, let alone the ability to fine tune.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
emfollin said:
So besides not being able to return the OEM CVN, are all the maps and calibrations the exact thing to a brand new car on the dealers lot? I want to get the Kpro and run the emanage with the stock calibration until I can get on a dyno and fine tune it. Plus I like the idea of the whole closed/open loop thing....much more reliable and not so much worrying. I can justify spending the extra money for the Kpro for just that alone, let alone the ability to fine tune.
No, the calibrations, as of now, are NOT factory stock, nor does the calibration library that comes with the K-Pro include a Honda factory calibration. The "stock" calibration that comes with the K-Pro is a dyno-tuned set of maps similar (though, according to Hondata, improved) to the Hondata 4 reflash. The scenario you mention is yet another reason why Hondata should include the factory calibration in the K-Pro calibration library.
 

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Nevermind, just talked to Matt at Hondata. There is no completely stock calibration included and he made it seem like there is no plan to include one. His advice to me was to start with the Revhard turbo program and dyno tune from there. He also said not to run just the Revhard turbo program...definately dyno tune it.

I then asked about the GReddy/Hondata flash and he said that for peak performance, both reliable and powerful, he would only recommend the Kpro.
 

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In the future there may be a stock calibration, I do not know when that may be. Everything else is correct. If you have already spent a large amount of money on the turbo kit then why hold back on the engine managment, which will allow you to make the most power reliably?

The calibrations included in the K-pro are not designed to allow you to buy it and never tune the car. They are there to give you a good starting point to begin tuning the car properly on the dyno.

emfollin said:
Nevermind, just talked to Matt at Hondata. There is no completely stock calibration included and he made it seem like there is no plan to include one. His advice to me was to start with the Revhard turbo program and dyno tune from there. He also said not to run just the Revhard turbo program...definately dyno tune it.

I then asked about the GReddy/Hondata flash and he said that for peak performance, both reliable and powerful, he would only recommend the Kpro.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hondata said:
In the future there may be a stock calibration, I do not know when that may be.
You did indicate some time ago it would be within a week or so. To be honest, I just don't understand why you don't simply make that available. It would help SOOO much to be able to compare the factory settings to the included calibration maps, and it wouldn't cost you a thing. And to provide to customers the ability to return something to stock via a simple set of maps that came with the car in the first place should not even be an issue. Why the hesitation?
 
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