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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
first off let me say im just starting this thread to help myself and others that may be having the same problem.... im just quoting everything between me and hondata for the moment...

FastFrontier17 said:
well... if i can't fix my idle the next trip home then im selling my turbo kit this summer... so let me start off with my issues and a little info on my setup...

i can't remember the serial, but heres a picture i took when i received it back in 2006

#2052 maybe ?





-KManager Version - 1.3.4.0

-2003 Acura RSX Type-S

-RSX-S PRB ecu

-Greddy front mount intercooler kit, revhard log manifold, precision sc6176 e-cover, tial 38mm wastegate, custom downpipe and testpipe, O2 sensors are at the stock location, greddy type rs bov, walbro 255lph in tank, rc 750 cc's on a stock fuel system, competition stage 4 clutch, stock flywheel

-Ok well it all started back in 2007 when i installed the kit... at first i just dealt with the idle surging...then for my first attempt at fixing it i cleaned the IACV by a full disassemble and soaking in non-chlorinated brake cleaner... i reassembled it after letting it soak over night and used a new TB gasket when reinstalling it... i topped off my coolant and let all of the air escape before i capped it off... after the iacv clean the idle was better... but still surging every now and then... I checked for vacuum leaks with some starter fluid and couldnt find any...

...the second attempt was looking at the tune... i talked with a few people on clubrsx and did a little searching and thought that maybe the low speed ign in the first couple of columns was just to high (i believe 19ish)... so i adjusted it accordingly and the idle got a tad better... but it would still surge every now and then while sitting in traffic or at a light...

...so after the ign fix i sent my datalog to a fellow crsx'r and he noticed that my short term fuel trim was pegged out at 46%... which indicated an exhaust leak... i had a few small exhaust leaks around the manifold and downpipe from loose bolts and such... so i fixed the problem... AND at the time i changed out to some new plugs (left the gap alone) because the old ones were giving me some misfires at idle...

after fixing the exhaust leaks the idle got just a tad better... but NOW the car will shutoff every once in a while when i depress the clutch at highway speeds or when im coming to a stop and turning at the same time (yielding for example)... so i played around with the slider bar and the a/f at idle... brought it to as low as 13.2 and as high as 14.7... the idle still bounces a little and the rpms still drop to the point of almost shutting off...

...something else id like to mention is how jerky the transition is between on and off throttle...

and having it in first gear when the car first warms up is impossible because of the bouncy and high idle...


...hopefully theres something else you guys can recommend for me... im giving it one last big push next weekend and if i cant get it right... im stripping it back to NA

tune >> http://hondata.com/forum/download.php?id=1897

datalog >> http://hondata.com/forum/download.php?id=1898


Hondata said:
Thank you for providing a datalog and calibration.

There are a number of problems. The first is that you're at +46% short term trim at idle, which indicates a problem with the oxygen sensor, injectors or fuel tables. There is something odd because the calibration has closed loop disabled but the datalog shows a short term trim. The actual injector duration seems about right for 750cc injectors, and the o2 sensor looks like it is working.

The second problem that I see is that the manifold vaccum is much lower than I would expect at idle (~19 kpa in your datalog, ~33 kpa would be normal).

Next, the idle slider is further to the right than expected, which will allow the idle to surge. Also the TPS is not reading 0%. The ELD looks odd, which may signify an electrical problem, but we'll not worry about that for now.

So:
- switch back to the stock MAP sensor (set a boost limit at 10 lbs)
- calibrate the TPS sensor.
- zero the 1250 rpm row cam angle (currently 15 degrees)
- put the idle slider in the middle.

Run the car and see what the short term trim is like. If it is still bad, consider getting the injectors tested for flow.

Don't be too worried if the idle speed is a little low and the car stalls after you first upload a calibration or cut power to the ECU. This is normal because the ECU takes some time to perform an idle learn (about 3 cold to hot driving cycles). If you increase the slider to the right to fix the idle when you've just uploaded, then once the ECU does the idle learn procedure you'll find it will hang above the target idle speed.

Don't worry about the ignition settings at idle. The ECU does not use the ignition table - it used 'ignition controlled idle', where it uses ignition timing to control the idle speed. That is why the ignition is very retarded at idle and bounces all over the place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
so this weekend i will be re-splicing my stock map sensor in the harness and temporarily ditching the msd 3 bar... and attempting to adjust the tps (i guess by just using a punch and tapping it)... then redoing all my vacuum lines... and possibly cleaning my iacv valve one last time...

if any of u guys have some free time to take a look at my datalog that i posted i would appreciate it if you could throw any other noticeable solutions into the fix... thanks in advance guys :D
 

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www.magtuning.com
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How old is your o2 sensor?

Did you fix all your leaks you had in the past? Looks like the sensor is getting some fresh air as o2 reading is in the 20's. Cleaning the IACV won't fix that lol, nor would the MAP sensor.

I would clean the injectors as Hondata has stated, make sure you have no exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor, and possibly even get a new sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
How old is your o2 sensor?

Did you fix all your leaks you had in the past? Looks like the sensor is getting some fresh air as o2 reading is in the 20's. Cleaning the IACV won't fix that lol, nor would the MAP sensor.

I would clean the injectors as Hondata has stated, make sure you have no exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor, and possibly even get a new sensor.
i don't think the o2 sensor is bad because it still reads fine under load it seems...the original o2 crapped out back in early 2007...so its around 2 years old and 25k-30k miles... i guess its still somehow possible its getting some air in there but i dont see how... i really want to clean the injectors but i dont think i'll be able to get them to a shop to have them properly flow tested and cleaned....

...i also attached a datalog... i zero'd out the 1250 row as hondata suggested but everything else stayed the same, that was the only way it would stay running... this was taken a few hours ago...


i can see why hondata would want me to reinstall the stock map... to eliminate the msd 3 bar from the equation...
 

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I would do as Hondata mentioned. If you stay with your current map sensor, make sure your calibration is set to open loop and then reupload it. Also, check the vacuum line that goes from the map sensor to the throttle body. That might have a slight crack that could cause this kpa issue. I look forward to the log
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
im holding off on messing with anything until this weekend because all my tools are at my house back in savannah... plus no time with classes, studying, and sleep...


...however i did as magnesium suggested and tried the Neetronics 3 bar for the same map as before... and actually it ran better from what i could tell... the a/f was almost right on with the afcmd and the strim was in the negatives... (not at 46%)

uploaded are the datalogs... in this order


1) datalog with the msd 3 bar...

2) datalog directly after with only the changing from msd to neetronics

3) datalog as the ect raised a little higher... there was a little bouncing in there still but still better than it was originally...
 

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www.magtuning.com
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im holding off on messing with anything until this weekend because all my tools are at my house back in savannah... plus no time with classes, studying, and sleep...


...however i did as magnesium suggested and tried the Neetronics 3 bar for the same map as before... and actually it ran better from what i could tell... the a/f was almost right on with the afcmd and the strim was in the negatives... (not at 46%)

uploaded are the datalogs... in this order


1) datalog with the msd 3 bar...

2) datalog directly after with only the changing from msd to neetronics

3) datalog as the ect raised a little higher... there was a little bouncing in there still but still better than it was originally...
Great. Keep the MAP as neetronics then work out the fuel and lower the IACV a cunt hair or until idle is smooth and you'll be good to go.
 

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strange what has occured here. I've looked at both the settings and the only big difference i can see is the offset the neetronics has. The volts at standard atmospheric pressure is also let. Strange, glad you got it figured out though. Now all you gotta do is put it in open loop and start tuning part throttle rpm by rpm, useable cam angle by usable cam angle
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
messed around with the idle a/f and slider bar... gonna give it a few days then mess around with it more so it has some time to cycle through and learn


might need to go a little richer... tried 14.2:1 but it was misfiring and popping a good bit.... took it down to about 13.7 i believe
 

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you need to enable open loop and tune it that way. Tuning off of short term fuel trims is definitely not the right way to do it. Read all the stickies and you'll see that i'm not the only one who tunes with open loop
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
According to the datalog, your idle is very rich, low 12's. When in open loop, your target af under the idle tab does not matter.
i know the target a/f doesnt matter when its in open loop... but while it was in closed loop it was popping a little... so i knocked it back from 13.8 to 13.5... cleared up the last few little pops
 

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so you finally fixed your surge?? What was causing it?
 
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