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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Honda/Acura has changed the valve keeper and retainer design, starting sometime in the '04 model year. do not mix and match these parts with the older design retainers & keepers!!! this also means if you have a late '04 to '06, you cannot use the newer keepers with aftermarket retainers. this has been verified by at least 4 aftermarket sources. to be on the safe side, you should either reuse the OEM retainers & keepers as a matched set, or buy a set of the older-style keepers.

the newer setup is identifiable by the arrow/hash marks on the keepers, as well as the light blue-green intake valve spring and orangey-brown exhaust valve spring.

finding this out really saved our ass today!



video by Stitch showing the loose fit of the newer keepers when used with aftermarket retainers: http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=471065
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
also, as some have already found out the newer valve spring seat apparently will not support using dual valve springs, thus to use Eibach, Supertech, Brian Crower etc. valvetrain you would have to change the valve seat as well as the valve stem seals. (trying to get pics)
 

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Wait a minute, do you have the vin numbers that apply to this change.

I have an 04, but i blew up the motor and purchased an 05 z1 head and i just ordered valve springs, retainers, and valves from brian crower.

What else do i have to buy now?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
the changeover would have started with a particular engine#, not VIN. the only way to know for sure on the 04's is pop the vavle cover and see what the valvespring colors are, then you would know if you have the updated valvetrain.

at least on Tan0116's set, Brian Crower also shipped the dual valvespring seats in addition to the retainers and springs. so what you would also need is a set of 32 older-style keepers, and replacement valve stem seals (8 for intake side and 8 for exhaust side, they are different)

I will post the OEM part #s if I can get a hold of them.
 

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For the 2003 model, acura lists two types of valve cotters

14781-PRB-A02 - Cotter, Valve (Service)
14781-PRB-A01 - Cotter, Valve

For the 06 model, they only list 1.

14781-PRB-A02 - Cotter, Valve (service)


Both of the service valve cotters are the same part #. I'm guessing the reason why the 03 shows two, is becuase of the change in the 04 models.


and your saying i would need new valve stem seals? is this becuase they are different on the later models also? or just becuase its a good idea to change them. I planned on purchasing seats and stem seals anyway, but do i need to order them from a specific year?

Also are you sure this change happened in 04? becuase there is also a difference in valve train from the 02's as compared to the 03's
 

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bump?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Also are you sure this change happened in 04? becuase there is also a difference in valve train from the 02's as compared to the 03's
they've made changes to the valve train in *every* model year and even in midyear. but sometime in '04 is when they started using the revised keeper design as described in the service news article. I'm assuming that the A02 keeper is the one with the triangular marks and the A01 one is the older style. 14781-PR7-A01 is interchangeable with 14781-PRB-A01. I think when they list (service) on the part description it means it can be backfit to the older models. also note they went from dished retainers to flat retainers and now to newer dished retainers with two dot marks; I don't trust that the online parts places have an accurate part# listed for that. bottom line is to check what you have and if the keepers and retainers have the distinguishing marks, they don't interchange with the older parts, and are not compatible with aftermarket retainers.

the valve seals from what I've been told get damaged when you remove them and you have to replace them; they're an inexpensive part. I'm trying to find the part #s for these, they aren't listed online.
 

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the valve seals from what I've been told get damaged when you remove them and you have to replace them; they're an inexpensive part. I'm trying to find the part #s for these, they aren't listed online.
12210-PZ1-003 SEAL A, VALVE STEM (ARAI) 2002 RSX 1.38 1.10 Qty:
12210-PZ1-004 SEAL A, VALVE STEM (NOK) 2002 RSX 1.38 1.10 Qty:
12211-PZ1-003 SEAL B, VALVE STEM (ARAI) 2002 RSX 1.38 1.10 Qty:
12211-PZ1-004 SEAL B, VALVE STEM (NOK)

Two of these numbers are discontinued, I forget which ones as I ordered my seals months ago. You need 8 A seals and 8 B seals, i.e intake and exhaust are different.

You can remove the seals with needle nose pliers but they are serrated on the inside and sometimes its tough to get a good grip on them. These pliers make it pretty easy to remove them.

http://www.amazon.com/EXTRA-LONG-VA...51?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1173046409&sr=8-8

When you go to install them use a socket the same size as the top of the seal and lightly tap them into place.

Make note of how the intake and exhaust are different. The exhaust seals have a black spring going around the seal while the intake are a lighter color. You'll see when you receive them.
 

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are valve cotters something that wear? i just realized they are still on my old head, or should i buy new ones
 

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yea, my old head has 43k mileson it, i may have lost one set of valve cotters, so idk if its stupid to mix and match old and new parts
 

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For the 2003 model, acura lists two types of valve cotters

14781-PRB-A02 - Cotter, Valve (Service)
14781-PRB-A01 - Cotter, Valve
I just tried calling Acura for the valve keepers and they can no longer order the old 14781-PRB-A01, because they superceded by the part 14781-PRB-A02. How can the new one be interchangeble?
 
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