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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just installed a dynorad (in car dyno) in my car. http://www.dynorad.com. Didn't want to mount the thing, it's kinda big, plus the only interesting thing it does that is useful as a static gauge is the jitter function that shows timing changes in the ignition system based off the tach lead. I just ran the harness along my center console so I can sit it in my drink holder when I want to use it at times. The cable goes neatly back under the center console when not in use, and the dynorad goes in my glove box. In any case -- this thing is suposed to be oodles better than a GTECH or other in car dynos. You tap into speed sensor, tach signal, and go for a few calibration runs to determine your drag, calculate your drive system mass factor etc. You provide car weight, temp, barometric pressure, temp, and sea level correction factor as well. Check out the section on their site about why dynorad is different.

Traditionally, in car dynos have lacked the consistancy needed to really determine if changes to your tune are generating more power or less. I guess I get to be the test pilot for this system. Will let you all know how it fairs when I get the kpro and start making adjustments to their cold air calibration.

My goal is to see if this system will be good enough to allow people with a kpro to tune without going to a traditional dyno -- Since kpro provides you with A/F, knock, and lots of other data to tune and monitor / abort runs due to bad conditions, the missing link is determining what things make power at what rpm ranges. I am trying this out with my N/A mods first, and will be getting a EGT, oil pressure, and boost guage before attempting anything like this with boost (which is where I hope to be perhaps end of this year, or next (HKS)).

Pics are at http://chewies.net/~raz/InstallPics/Dynorad/small/ . Large versions are at http://chewies.net/~raz/InstallPics/Dynorad/ . Seems some came out a bit blurry. Go figure.

Comments / suggestions welcome.
 

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San Diego OG RSX
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does it only give peak numbers or does it graph along the whole rev range?

EDIT: NVM it does plot. Pretty nice.

now lock your cam angles and do some runs. :thumbsup:
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I just did my first power test after driving around for close to 2 hours to find a good flat road with nothing around it and no place (or reasons) for cops to hide. Basically, since I'm in kansas, there's like NOTHING but fucking hills everywhere. The only places that don't have hills are highways and a few select roads in certian industrial areas that were zoned and leveled off I imagine. Found a nice long FLAT stretch with nothing except industrial buildings where people go home like right at 5pm just a mile or two away from the house! This is a great place. It's dead, it's flat, it's *no* traffic on the weekends, and I can't imagine why anyone would try and setup a speed trap where there's not any traffic ;).

Well, first run went well, but I think I did something wrong to store the results .. I went and reviewed them and it said I had peak power of 266hp at 7200rpm .. there were no data points for 7300 - 8000 at all. I think this is the demo run they ship with it since I know i'm at 178 at the wheels on a real dyno. I gotta figure out how to actual save the data! I got all the way home before I realized that I was missing 7300+ rpm data and realized that it couldn't have been my run since I went to 8k.

In any case -- it does NOT plot, it just provides the data, they give you software to plot, but as far as I can tell, you have to type in the data 100 rpms at a time. Kinda tedious -- but I supose if you're good with the numpad and just throw it in excel you can't really go wrong. Guess it will go hand in hand with having a kpro with laptop ;).

Wayne
 

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Absolute Pro-Formance
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park83rsx said:
I'm interested in seeing how this works once you get a good run in.

As am I, seems like it might be a good one.
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, I went out and did a bit of testing. I determined one thing -- something is dorked with my mass factor number -- I got 78. They say mass factor is "A measure of drivetrain rotating inertia and is expressed as a percentage of the vehicle weight". I think 78 is kinda high. I went ahead and lowered it to like 5% and my hp/tq numbers looked more sane. They say to adjust the mass factor to make your curve line up with a dynojet or similar for maximum accuracy. It would seem to be for 'any acuracy' this number needs to be right, and the estimation function they give you didn't give me very accurate results. I need to contact them about this.

Also, I still am missing power numbers from the last 400 rpm of every power test. Not sure what's going on here... I know the tach function and mph function are right on the money when driving around displaying either value. I need to contact them about this as well.

So far, it's *very* inaccurate and missing some datapoints as setup via the manual. Hopefully there will be some light shed on this soon.

Wayne
 

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Razathorn said:
Also, I still am missing power numbers from the last 400 rpm of every power test. Not sure what's going on here... I know the tach function and mph function are right on the money when driving around displaying either value. I need to contact them about this as well.

If you are going off the factory tach, it can be off by a couple hundred rpms.
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
park83rsx said:
If you are going off the factory tach, it can be off by a couple hundred rpms.
Actually, it's only off by 50 across the board for me -- I checked up to like 5k. The problem is happening at low rpms too when I do a window of like 2000 - 4500, I will only get up to like 3900 or 4000. I know the tach is right (by 50rpm). I've sent them an email -- I'm going out again to try the various line noise filter options they have to see if it's something about that. Also, something from my electronics background says to me that perhaps some of my wire twisting did something -- but I think with such high voltage pulses and low data rages (compared to something say like etherenet), it shouldn't be a problem.
 

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Razathorn said:
Actually, it's only off by 50 across the board for me -- I checked up to like 5k. The problem is happening at low rpms too when I do a window of like 2000 - 4500, I will only get up to like 3900 or 4000. I know the tach is right (by 50rpm). I've sent them an email -- I'm going out again to try the various line noise filter options they have to see if it's something about that. Also, something from my electronics background says to me that perhaps some of my wire twisting did something -- but I think with such high voltage pulses and low data rages (compared to something say like etherenet), it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh yeah, you've checked it with the k-pro, huh? :)
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
park83rsx said:
Oh yeah, you've checked it with the k-pro, huh? :)
I don't follow...

Btw, I got a response from them. They told me that I have to go a bit past the highest rpm range I want to dyno for. Yikes -- this might be a bust.
 

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K series tuning liberator
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Interesting.......

CJ
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
They also said that my mass factor was WAY off and that was causing the skewed results. According to all of their comparisons between a dynojet and their in car system, they always adjusted it till the curves matched to determine what the right mass factor was. This provided the magic mass factor to use so the results would always line up with the dynoyet. Acording to them the equation in the manual I used is suposed to get within 2% of the right number, but he said that my number was just crazy off and totally wrong and he would have to look at the math to see why it's coming out that way. In any case, he said since I had a previous dynojet result to just adjust the factor till it matched, then from that point on I would be golden.

The thing about missing the last 400-600 rpm is kinda lame though -- I emailed back saying there HAS to be some way to get that data, that I needed to tune right up to red. In reality, I imagine there is still a great deal of use for tuning everything except the last 4-600... I mean you hit peak way before that, but still... I want those numbers!

Wayne
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
teamxrsx said:
Interesting.......

CJ
Indeed! Somebody's gotta take one for the team ;).

Also, for those who looked at pics -- untwisting those wires removed a lot of noise from the system -- the rpm number stays very still now.. only going between like 5-7 rpm at a time when at idle. It used to just be wicked crazy all over the place for a range of some 50 rpm. Much cleaner signal I take it.
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Well, I entered the current weather conditions from the weather station and then did some pulls around the 4500 range (2000 to 5000) and used my actual dynojet results to dial in the mass factor setting so numbers at 4500 lined up. This made my mass factor in 2nd gear 19. I went ahead and did a full run to 8k (or what I thought was... didn't hit my rev limiter). I asked for data from 15 mph and up... Here's what I got.



4500 rpm = 125 torque was my data point for calibration. As you can see, it's damn close. The peak number at 178 at 7400 lines right up with my dynojet results at 7400. So now it seems that the dynojet is quite a bit granular, obviously since I only have data points every 100 rpm...but that is a given. The general shape of the torque curve and hp curve line up quite well. I will post some pics of the dynojet later, but it was from 4/9/05 in drastically different weather. The fact that the data points I checked were right on by 1-2hp almost everywhere is very good. I am still a bit bummed about the last 500 or so rpm I am missing.

EDIT: the peak hp on the dynojet was 184.6 at around 7700. I had (and still only have) injen cai, jrrh, hondata gasket, tb bypass, high flow cat. The majority of the difference from stock (176) was the CAI, not much else did anything really. This should be fixed with exhaust and kpro w/ tuning. I am trying to decide if I want to hang around N/A for a while and pick up a new custom magnaflow exhaust in the mean time to complete the n/a picture before I get the HKS kit... which could be next year.

Wayne
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
One interesting thing, my dynojet has a dramatic drop and then rise in power right for like 200 rpm right at the vtech point (5800) -- this is somewhat not visable (besides a slight dip across the board), I am guessing here, due to the real world load condition. The dynojet drums are probably much more sensitive to power spikes and drops. Not sure how this will affect tuning one way or the other. It could be hiding critical info from me, it could be removing info I didn't need -- ie, if It doesn't provide a real load change in power, what value is there in tuning it out.

Thoughts?

EDIT: DAMN, it was for 200 rpm, not 2000 rpm! -- my vtec dip wasn't THAT bad! ;)
 

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Mmm Vtech. Anyway, this tool seems pretty interesting. It would be a great investment if it proved to be accurate.

-Carl
 

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Razathorn said:
One interesting thing, my dynojet has a dramatic drop and then rise in power right for like 2000 rpm right at the vtech point (5800) -- this is somewhat not visable (besides a slight dip across the board), I am guessing here, due to the real world load condition. The dynojet drums are probably much more sensitive to power spikes and drops. Not sure how this will affect tuning one way or the other. It could be hiding critical info from me, it could be removing info I didn't need -- ie, if It doesn't provide a real load change in power, what value is there in tuning it out.

Thoughts?

Can you adjust smoothing on the graph?
 

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glory to the hypnotoad
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
park83rsx said:
Can you adjust smoothing on the graph?
To what purpose? -- I only have data points every 100 rpm. It's not like a traditional chassis dyno where I get points all over the place. The number at each 100 rpm is already a 'smoothed' value from what I understand. There is a 'filter' option in the dynorad in car unit which can go from 1-5 .. they suggest using 1 for drive train slippage analysis, and 4 for power tests. My guess is this is basically what would smooth things out like you're asking. I just stuck with 4 for my tests.

Perhaps with a lower filter number the graph would be more erratic? I might have to try this and see what the differences are. Thanks for the idea!
 

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Razathorn said:
To what purpose? -- I only have data points every 100 rpm. It's not like a traditional chassis dyno where I get points all over the place. The number at each 100 rpm is already a 'smoothed' value from what I understand. There is a 'filter' option in the dynorad in car unit which can go from 1-5 .. they suggest using 1 for drive train slippage analysis, and 4 for power tests. My guess is this is basically what would smooth things out like you're asking. I just stuck with 4 for my tests.

Perhaps with a lower filter number the graph would be more erratic? I might have to try this and see what the differences are. Thanks for the idea!

Oh ok. I didn't know the exact resoultion of the data.

I was thinking if you removed some of the smoothing, you may be able to see dips/spikes more easily.
 
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