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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Important threads:
- JRSC belts & pulleys thread
Due to Vendor advertising issues installers thread has been removed. Contact Jackson Racing for a list of authorized Installers in your area. Thx Admin

What is a Jackson Supercharger?
It's basically an airpump that forces more air and gas into the motor, thus making more horsepower. It is a big step up from just adding an intake, header, or catback exhaust, though it works best in conjunction with those. It is still a "bolt-on" which means you don't have to modify the innards of your engine. Jackson Research at www.jacksonracing.com makes one specifically for the RSX. The current JRSC for the 2002-2004 RSX uses the Eaton Gen IV JR62 Supercharger. The supercharger is made by the Eaton Group (see their supercharger page) but all service and aftermarket work is done by Magnuson Products, Inc. (see their supercharger page).

How much power will I get?
That depends. Jackson has a "street" and a "race" version. The street version will add between 30 and 50 hp at the wheel (see official dyno. The original race version (there are now two) will add another 30 or 40. (see official dyno.) Note that Jackson's own dynos compare a totally stock RSX with a rather low baseline with a supercharged RSX that doesn't only have the JRSC but also raceheader and a special exhaust, so the gains are not all from the JRSC.

Judging by published dynos from people who actually have the race version installed, actual horsepower numbers are on the low end of Jackson's claims, in the 230 range. However, some get much higher numbers. The Type-S of one of the Hondata principals makes 290 hp on a Dynapack on 9 psi of boost. WDSonny's latest is well over 300 hp on a Dynapack on over 11 psi of boost. Hondata has dynoed a 10 psi JRSC with an experimental aftercooler in the 330 whp range on a DynaPack.

Does Jackson have different "race" versions?
Yes, Jackson Racing has an upgrade to their basic 5 psi race version. It consists of a different pulley (3.4") that increases boost from about 5 psi to 7 psi. It also requires a different Hondata ECU reflash. Jackson says the 7 psi race version makes over 280 wheel hp. See 5 vs 7 psi dynos. Those who already have the race version can get the pulley upgrade for $149 and the ECU reflash for free (It is free from Hondata even if a race version customer chooses not to upgrade to the new pulley. See Hondata release). In a quest for more power yet, Hondata prototyped other combinations, such as a 3.2" pulley and 9 pounds of boost with 550 injectors, and they are also testing 650 and 750 injectors.

Can I get into the 12s in the quarter mile?
Yes, herts62 (JRSC, 11psi, 650cc RC injectors, K-Pro, Exedy stage 2) had a 12.992 @ 112.70 mph (2.238 60') and a 12.943 @ 108.80 mph (2.259 60'), and the time slips to prove it.

I still want more. Isn't a turbo better?
Endless discussion on that. In general, experts seem to feel that a supercharger is less of a risk. It has less top end power, but many people prefer the instant response and more linear power of a supercharger.

How much does it cost?
The street has a list price of $2,495 and the race version $2,995.

How much is the install?
If you have the installation done at a shop, I've heard figures as low as $350 and as high as $850.

But isn't it dangerous to supercharge an already high compression Type-S motor?

The S-Type's 11:1 compression seems very high for any turbo- or supercharged car. However, experts here seem to feel that if you take care of the car and don't push it all the time, the Type-S engine should be able to handle up to 10 pounds of boosts without breaking down soon. The basic Jackson charger only creates about 5 pounds of boost, so it may have minimal impact on engine life.

Will my gas mileage get much worse?
That depends on your driving. The supercharger is actually on boost only between 5 and 10% of the time. The rest of the time a bypass valve makes the engine run without boost. That is both good for engine life and gas mileage. However, the engine must still turn the blower via a belt even when the valve is open, so mileage will likely be a bit lower. A Hondata representative said he still got 33 mpg on a 80-90 mph cruise, though a lot less in town when the SC is on boost more often. I estimate that overall mileage will be about two mpg lower.

Won't the SC drain power from my engine when it is not on boost?
Likely a little bit. After all, the supercharger is driven via belt by the crankshaft pulley. However, those who have a JRSC installed call the power drain "virtually none." Doug Macmillan of Hondata states: "A guess might be that at 8000 rpm a supercharger making 9 pounds of boost on a 290 HP engine might take 30 hp to drive." Patdeisa in his sticky on forced induction said: "If we assume the supercharger requires 22% of the power increase it makes to operate (a lowly 12 hp at max)...." A graph at magnusonproducts.com indicates that the mp62 blower takes between 25 and 35 hp at high rpms. Bottomline: when not on boost, the JRSC drains almost no power. When on boost, the blower takes power, but much less than it makes.

Is the Jackson Supercharger CARB-legal?
The street version is CARB (California Air Resources Board) legal and you get a sticker to prove it. The race version, however, is not. That is because it uses an ECU reflash which are not CARB-legal unless they are specifically CARB-certified, which costs a lot of money. Installing larger injectors is also not CARB-legal. That may not be a big problem if you just have a standard car with perhaps an innocuous looking (and CARB legal) icebox and the Hondata reflash, because no one can see the reflash.

What's the actual difference between the street and the race version?
Very little. It's the same install. However, the race version uses a ECU reflash developed by Hondata for Jackson (instead of a digital fuel management card added to the standard computer), and it also comes with 550 cc fuel injectors instead of the stock 310cc, and a MAP relocator. When you upgrade from the street to the race version, the JRSC/Hondata reflash takes over the function of the digital fuel management system card which will no longer be needed. The original Hondata race version reflash was designed specifically for the race version's 5psi boost level. In March 2004 Hondata released a new version of the JRSC reflash that can accommodate boost levels up to 7psi and has additional improvements. Hondata's programmable ECU can accomodate boost up to 11 psi with the stock MAP sensor, and that's about as high as you get with the M62 blower.

Can the street version be upgraded to the race version?
Yes. You send in your ECU/immobilizer/key to Hondata and get back a reflashed ECU and fuel injectors. Existing Hondata customers get a price break.

Can I use my existing Hondata reflash?
You can't. If you have Hondata and want to install the street SC, you'll have to set the ECU back to stock and let Jackson's digital fuel management system handle things instead.

I already have a K-Pro! Does Jackson sell a race version without the reflash or K-Pro?

Yes, Jackson Racing is offering a $2,695 list race version without Hondata. That is just $200 more than the street version. Compared to the street version, the race version includes replacement injectors and removes the digital fuel management system. The injectors list for about $360, so JR gives race customers a $160 break by leaving out the digital fuel management system.

I have a Mugen ECU. Can I use it with the JRSC?
Not as is. The Mugen ECU is highly optimized for non-boosted engines. However, Hondata can reflash it for JRSC use, or you can install Hondata's programmable K-Pro ECU upgrade in it.

Does the Jackson supercharger work with my intake/header/catback?
Most likely it will work fine. However, users of the JRSC have reported that having the right header and exhaust can add or rob a lot of horsepower. Exhausts, especially can be a problem. To get full power, you'll want a large diameter exhaust, but such an exhaust could negatively affect low end performance when not on boost. And the programmable Hondata K-Pro makes it much easier to get all the power out of the kit.

What intake will work best with the Jackson Superchargers?
Most say that a cold air intake works much better than a short ram. Hondata says they have seen 0.3 to 0.4 psi of extra boost and 10-12 whp more from a CAI than from a Short Ram Intake.

Is more boost always better?
Not always. On a dyno you may encounter situations where fuel, ignition, or cam angle settings get you more boost, but not more power. So all you get is higher intake temperatures. What you want is the most power at the lowest possible boost. That said, at the top end an extra pound of boost can translate into an extra 10 hp.

Do I need a special exhaust to get the most out of the Jackson supercharger?
Some claim that the stock exhaust works just fine, better than some aftermarket catbacks. However, an exhaust designed for boosted engines will definitely add a few more horses.

(WDSonny said: "The exhaust system for the K20A2 RSX Type S is very sensitive to modification, especially when dealing with forced induction. Think about this, you have an intake of 3inch, (AEM, Injen, DCSports, etc....) plus the JRSC with the Race upgrade. Theoretically, you are pushing the equivalent of a 3.0L engine's intake into your engine. Now, once that intake charge has mixed with fuel and detonated. You have the same effect of a 3.0L's engine's exhaust. Where does this exhaust go? Into a 2.25inch aftermarket cat back or stock 2.25inch exhaust? You need one inch extra per 100WHP you wish to gain."

Is the JRSC difficult to install?
That depends on how handy you are. A supercharger is still considered a "bolt-on," but there are quite a few bolts involved. I've seen reports anywhere from an end user doing it himself in 12 hours or so, all the way to a garage taking several days. And even experts report on a few tricky parts. Getting the belt tightened just right is important and time-consuming. And the tight fit of the install may touch and rub and cause damage here and there. Some experts recommed replacing the motor mounts or at least get motor mount inserts.

Okay, but how good a mechanic do I need to be to do it myself?
ScottAtYamaha who installed his himself said: "I have been turning wrenches on cars for a couple of years now. If you have basic knowledge of lefty loosy and righty tighty and have the right tools you and a friend can install it in one to two days. Just take your time and double and triple check everything you do. No problem!"

tt061880 said: "I just had mine installed yesterday. It took about 8 hrs for the installation. The job was easier than I thought it would be even though the most complicated thing I had ever done to a car is put on an air intake. For those who plan to do it yourself, a pair of helping hands is a must. Front bumper removal isn't neccessary, remove the coolant hose between the radiator and the engine because it'll save you a lot of time when you put on the supercharger's supporter fromt the bottom. Make sure you have a lot of tools because you will need a whole lot more tools than the tools that being listed on the manual instruction. Read your instructions over a few times, this going to help you later."

Is there a good manual or "Do it yourself" somewhere on how to install the JRSC?

K-Series.com posted a rather detailed overview of the installation in a Type-S with many pictures. Jackson Racing itself has detailed installation manuals for both the street and race versions that you can peruse online (or download) in pdf form.

Any tips/tricks from people who installed a JRSC into their RSX?
WDSonny: "When you put the passenger side engine mount back in make sure you put the flat side up! That was one of the problems the shop that did my install messed up on! Be sure you do the belt tightening sequence or you will throw a belt! Almost 1500 miles on my belt and all is good! Make sure you follow the directions and take your time! Do not rush the install or you will mess up! Remove the tabs on the headlamp and install ES MM inserts! Those will save you!"

Steve Lloyd: "One more tip, LOCTITE, I am having to go back now and remove a lot of things to loctite them because my power steering pump and bracket is rattling like crazy. The bolts turn by hand and they were torqued to spec on the install. I did it myself, so I can't complain to anyone but me."

WDSonny: "An oil catch can would be a very wise choice for use with the JRSC setup. The catch can will go between the PCV (located under the neck of the JRSC pulley) and the top of the SC. I used 5/8 inch braided fish tank hose and mounted the catch can on one of the stock airbox standoffs with a universal "T" connector. You can shape and bend the connector to your liking. Make sure you get long enough hoses. Do not use the one braided hose supplied with most kits. Go out and get your own. The ones that come with the kit are not strong enough to take the vacuum from the SC. Inside the catch can I would put something to filter out the blow by gases that vent to the can. If your can comes with a filter then forget the last step. The Greddy can does not come with anything inside. After my drive from CA to MS I noticed the hose from the PCV to the can were black and the hose going back to the SC were clean. This is a wise investment for the JRSC."

I heard I need different spark plugs after I install the JRSC.
Yes. You generally need to switch to different plugs if you a) increase the compression ratio or b) add a lot of horsepower, which the JRSC does. Jackson Racing itself recommends to use plugs one or two steps colder than the stock plugs. Spark plug manufacturer NGK recommends one step colder for every 75-100 hp added. The heat range of a sparkplug, btw, means how much heat it can handle. A "colder" plug removes enough heat so that it does neither pre-ignite in a supercharged engine, nor foul up. For a good spark plug FAQ click here. For a thread on spark plug issues click here.

What problems are people who have the JRSC installed running into?
Breaking belts and problems with the original and since redesigned tensioner are by far the biggest concerns. Traction is an issue, but that is not the JRSC's fault. Motor mount inserts are highly recommended. They keep the engine from jerking around too much. There is also one report of the power steering pump bolts breaking off.

So belts are a problem?
Belts/tensioner seems to be the weak spot in the JRSC, as they are in all Eaton blower kits. You definitely need to keep an eye on the belt. Proper installation is crucial, as is frequent tightenting. Even a belt that seems to be installed just fine may, in fact, be slipping. On the dyno, WDSonny discovered that his belt was slipping above 7,500 rpm. Tightening the belt and some minor tuning increased his power from 260 to 286! Interestingly, some people are still on their first belt while others have shredded a whole bunch.

I heard there was some sort of pulley problem
It was not a belt problem or a pulley problem, but a tensioner problem. The moveable tensioner pulled away from the supercharger when you tightened it down. This caused the 10mm bolt to strip out but also caused the pulley to go out of alignement when it was tightened back down. Jackson admitted there was a problem in the machining process that caused the tossed belts. JR replaced them free of charge. To get the replacements, you must:

1. Contact Keith Taber (JR Tech) direct via email ([email protected])
2. Fax/mail/email a copy of their purchase invoice
3. Have a warranty card on file at Jackson
4. Return the faulty pulleys once you received and installed the new parts. Jackson says it will allow ample time to get the new parts installed, but if thet do not receive the old parts back, warranty for th entire kit will be voided. Jackson will reimburse UPS published rates for the returned parts.
5. All kits manufactured after May 1st, have the new pulleys.

Should I have tools in the car in case a belt breaks?
That's a good idea. tt061880 suggests "don't forget to always have the "JRSC ROAD KIT" in the car at all time, it consists a 12mm wrench and a 7 rib belt that is between 77.5 or 79.6 inches long." jsfwds2k adds, "Mine consists of a lot more tools than that! I have a razor blade to cut off ribs that might be hanging on the belt, a 13 mm socket and wrench along with the 12, and a few other tools. I make sure to have all I will need to change out a belt and then some." Also, here's ther belt routing:



Hey, 210 wheel hp of the street version translates into something like 250 or 260 flywheel, and the RSX weighs 500 pounds less than a Sti? Think I can beat one?

Not off the line. Most who installed the JRSC complain about wheelspin, and the STi has more power anyway.

Hey, 250 wheel hp of the race version translates into something like 310 or 320 flywheel, and the RSX weighs 500 pounds less than a STi. Think I can beat one now?

Not off the line. There is even more wheelspin with more power, so having the right tires becomes ever more important.

Okay, I now have the 9 psi upgrade, nitrous, and a Quaife LSD (limited slip differential). My wheel hp is well over 300. NOW can I beat a STi?
It'll still be tough at launch, but yes, you now have the power to beat an un-modded STi (or Evo). In fact, even without a LCD, a high-powered JRSC RSX does not have to fear a stock STi or Evo (except, of course, at launch).

Sounds like a lot of work to beat some of those cars. So why bother?
Good question. If you start with a $24k Type-S, add two grand for intake, catback and header, etc., then add four grand for the street supercharger plus install, plus another two for a decent set of wheels and a few add-ons, you're at $32k, and that buys you a stock WRX STi or Evo MR which have huge performance potential on top of its base performance. However, having all that power in a car like the RSX can be very addictive.

I plan on selling the car in a couple of years. Won't the supercharger lower my resale value?

That's a big question for all who modify their cars. You can't trade in a heavily modified car. You may be able to sell it to someone who loves the mods. Or you can undo all the modifications. In that case, a supercharger is relatively easily uninstalled (keep all the OEM parts!!).

Will I love it?

That depends on what you're seeking. Most who have a Jackson Racing supercharger installed really like it. They say it is a well-built, reliable product, something that can be used in a daily driver. Some are disappointed because they wanted even more power and almost everyone complains about excessive wheel spin on a JRSC-equipped RSX. (ScottatYamaha once posted: I have tried launching my car in every way possible and the only way to get a good start is to start off normally then slowly lay into it. I even try to let it spin then let out of it and get back into to it and that does nothing. That is the only downfall I have found so far.

My own impression at this point is that anyone who wants an absolute monster car should probably not start out with a RSX. It is, after all, just a fun, light, front wheel drive coupe. Those who realize that and still want a good deal more power than the standard bolt-ons (I/H/E) provide will probably find a supercharger a less risky, less troublesome solution than a turbo. And with the boost upgrades via smaller pulleys, the Hondata's K-Pro programmable ECU, special boost cams, and the possible introduction of an aftercooler, the limit has been raised.
 

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Re: Jackson Supercharger: (almost) everything a newbie should know

conradb212 said:



But isn't it dangerous to supercharge an already high compression Type-S motor?

That's what I would think. The S-Type's 11:1 compression seems very high for any turbo- or supercharged car. However, experts here seem to feel that if you take care of the car and don't push it all the time, the Type-S engine should be able to handle up to 10 pounds of boosts without breaking down soon. The Jackson charger only creates about 5 pounds of boost, so it may have minimal impact on engine life.
Does this sound very skeptical to anyone else?

If you take care and don't push it all the time........should be able........without breaking down soon.
It may have minimal impace on engine life.
 

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Fix it 'til it's broken
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Good info., very helpful write-up :thumbsup:
 

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I LOVE HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS!
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shouldnt this be in the boost section?
 

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no! it should be in the newbie section. this post is bad on so many levels.

and conrad doesnt know what hes talking bout.

sti's can be had w/o a supercharger. the street version with some good bolt ons should have no trouble keeping up with an sti from a roll.
 

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Re: Re: Jackson Supercharger: (almost) everything a newbie should know

Sounds good to me. Been running non stop for 10k miles. I keep my foot planted when I am burning up the streets. Can't wait for Jan 3 to take on that loser wdsonny at Qualcomm!! He fears my JRSC setup. We will see, if he decides to show up!

k20tuner said:
Does this sound very skeptical to anyone else?

If you take care and don't push it all the time........should be able........without breaking down soon.
It may have minimal impace on engine life.
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter #8
SoLoSpEeD101 said:
i smell copy and paste...good job conrad, now you feel accomplished huh? :thumbsup:
Not at all. And I don't copy and paste. I edit magazines for a living. I read a lot and like to do research. I just saw the same questions asked over and over and over, and decided to put up a post that summarizes what I learned from the many experts here and in other places. Also, I initially put it up in the general Performance section because a lot of newcomers might simply wonder which way to go. I am aware that people here in the Boost section already know everything I said.

Anyway, apparently putting up that information was a mistake. I didn't know you guys would be so offended by someone trying to provide some information to those less informed than you are. :)
 

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what the hell is wrong with you guys? he's just trying to summarize everything up and explain it a little better. I think that the info was pretty accurate.....y do you guys always flame ppl when they are trying to contribute to the board? even if it was a cut n paste (which it isnt) what difference would it make? atleast it'll answer some questions the newbie's keep asking all the time. good job conrad, good write-up
 

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haha i wasnt trying to be a dick head, i was trying to joke but i guess you didnt notice the sarcasm (haha i kno its kinda hard to notice sarcasm in writing...)
lol well it is actually a good write up, i also learned a few things from your write up...good job :thumbsup:
about the catback exhaust, you want one that doesnt have much backpressure, about a 3" piping works the best, read some of wdsonny's posts, and i think a good exhaust can free up about 20 horses...
 

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EH EH EH EH EH EH EH EH
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i think this deserves a sticky... and make all the boost newbies read it before they can start posting questions about superchargers
 

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ECU Tuner
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Discussion Starter #12
SoLoSpEeD101 said:
haha i wasnt trying to be a dick head, i was trying to joke but i guess you didnt notice the sarcasm (haha i kno its kinda hard to notice sarcasm in writing...)
lol well it is actually a good write up, i also learned a few things from your write up...good job :thumbsup:
about the catback exhaust, you want one that doesnt have much backpressure, about a 3" piping works the best, read some of wdsonny's posts, and i think a good exhaust can free up about 20 horses...
Hey, no problem, and thanks. Yes, I did read pretty much all of WDSonny's woes and experiences (and I wonder what he'll get next). It is clear that the supercharger seems quite sensitive to exhaust backpressure.

I still think having all of this information in one place is a good thing. When I did the post I hoped others would add their wisdom/corrections/addendums, etc, so that it might become a real JRSC FAQ that could help others make up their mind. For example, when I joined this forum I didn't know much about superchargers on a RSX. I still don't know anything compared to the guys who actually have one, but I learned a lot from them. Now I seriously consider installing one into my 2004 Type-S.

I think one of the differences between this forum and a general Honda forum is that we're all driving an almost new and relatively expensive car that only came out in 2002. So many of us may want more questions answered before doing something fairly dramatic like boosting our cars. After all, for most of us, our RSX's are not just project cars, but something we make hefty payments for, and which we might want to trade in someday. That's very different from starting with a ten year old beater, modding it, and then selling it to another enthusiast.
 

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First all. Let me thank conradb212 for his research on my problem. Yes, the exhaust system for the K20A2 RSX Type S is very sensitive to modification, especially when dealing with forced induction. Think about this, you have an intake of 3inch, (AEM, Injen, DCSports, etc....) plus the JRSC with the Race upgrade. Theoretically, you are pushing the equivalent of a 3.0L engine's intake into your engine. Now, once that intake charge has mixed with fuel and detonated. You have the same effect of a 3.0L's engine's exhaust. Where does this exhaust go? Into a 2.25inch aftermarket cat back or stock 2.25inch exhaust? 1inch per 100WHP you wish to gain. Now you flame artist please entertain me as to false of this statement. I am shooting for 300WHP, meaning real world, street horsepower being available for use when I see fit. I have been away for some time researching the effect of my projected exhaust project. Many a people and most of them are NHRA mechanics say what I already did. When my 3inch custom header back exhaust with 3inch Borla muffler is installed, I will notice considerable gains in the entire RPM band. I will dyno it, when I get the first chance to let you know the gains. Again, I did not want to come out like this, but you guys will not let sleeping dogs lie.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
wdsonny, thanks so much for replying. I added your comments to the FAQ post. Best of luck with your project!! And sorry if I implied that you were done with the RSX for good. I thought you had wanted to sell the car and move on to a new and different vehicle.
 

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wdsonny, I have not doubts that a 3" exhasut is goign to see tremendous gains across the band when the supercharger is engaged. However for those of us who use our RSX as a daily driver, as most of us do. What effect do you think 3" exhaust on normal around town driving will have under vtec and not engaging the supercharger. Do you think it might be better to go with more of a compromise like a custom 2.6 or2.75" setup. Just a question.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
scottatyamaha, who has the JRSC and probably knows more about it than most just posted that without a limited slip differential, traction with the supercharger is so bad that he doesn't want to race people from a stop.

Now, racing from a stoplight is not all that matters, but I think his statement nicely illustrates that getting a much higher level of overall performance from a car means you have to invest in many different areas of the car, and not just what pumps up the horsepower.
 

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That is all true, but would a LSD be necessary for a daily driver. I mean I rarely get on the throttle coming off a start. I usually don't hit the gas until 2nd gear or if I'm dropping it. I think I need to take a ride in a JRSC Type S because I'm just not seeing how 5 psi of boost is creating this horrendous traction issue. Yes I do realize that the charger is instant boost but still.

One thing I've never really understood about superchargers is do they add an extra strain on the engine? I know they are connected to the crank with a belt but does that additional stress negatively effect the engine? I know "it takes power to make power" with a charger but is that the only negative effect to the engine?
 

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Believe me when I say I can burn the tires in first from 2000RPM to 8600RPM and then shift to 2nd and burn halfway thru that gear. You are creating torque immediately that is why there is no traction. The only downfall of the JRSC race version is currently there is no upgrade.
 
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