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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have any experience with having a Mikronite treatment done on their transmission gears? I know there have been different attempts to make our trans stronger, but nothing is very successful. I have even been told by a company who does cryo treatments that their results on the RSX trans are not very good. I'm on my 2nd trans now and I would like to get it strengthened when I put my LSD in.

www.mikronite.com
www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21017
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Anybody???
 

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Mikronite....

What might you need to know? I haven't been on here in forever I just heard a friend talking about it and figured I'd venture on over here. I'm sure that you saw the link to it the development and testing. If you would like to talk to someone who already has it. Flash202 on K20a.org has experience with it. He was my intial tester.

PS you guys have some of the best smileys I've seen!:weeeeeeeeee: Funny as hell
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've seen the thread on K20a.org. I wanted to bring some discussion over here to see if anyone on CRSX has done it. There is a shop (Liberty's Gears) 20 minutes from my house that does it. I'll have to give them a call and see what it costs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I called Liberty's Gears (313-278-4040)...
They said that the Mikronite treatment isn't very benficial for adding strength to gears. What it does though is increase the durability because the wear on the gears will be reduced. They also said the common problem with Honda transmissions is that the gears are too brittle. They recommend softening them some. There total process that they do on transmissions to make them the best they can be consists of:
1. Heat treating ($4 / pound)
2. Cryo treatment ($4-$5 / pound)
3. Mikronite treatment ($16/gear, $65 input shaft)

All 3 should be done. Does anyone know the internals of the 6 speed tranny well enough to estimate how much that all would cost?
 

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Yep. I do. 27 pieces, plus four shift forks, 2 shafts and one ring gear which will be considered a shaft becasue of size for a grand total of about $1100-1200 without labor and shipping. Now let's review : they actually don't add strength but, they do up the durability so that means that it will take more beingthat there is less friction so wouldn't that be considered strengthening the tranny if it can take more now? As for the heat treating: Done nobody does it better than honda, Cryo defintely not recommended talk to the PRO stock guys about what happens to cryo treated stuff and torque especially with slicks.
Now that all that's said and out of the way, My price for the job isn't too bad huh? I do all the development work for this, figured out how to get these trannies to stop grinding all the time and take power. Tested it provided uncontestable results. Hell I even ran it without oil just to see if it was that good and still didn't break. Still working fine to this day and no one still will even listen. I guess my efforts have fallen onto deaf ears. I give it at good price and even offer to install LSD's etc... free of charge and nothing.
 

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Yep. I do. 27 pieces, plus four shift forks, 2 shafts and one ring gear which will be considered a shaft becasue of size for a grand total of about $1100-1200 without labor and shipping. Now let's review : they actually don't add strength but, they do up the durability so that means that it will take more beingthat there is less friction so wouldn't that be considered strengthening the tranny if it can take more now? As for the heat treating: Done nobody does it better than honda, Cryo defintely not recommended talk to the PRO stock guys about what happens to cryo treated stuff and torque especially with slicks.
Now that all that's said and out of the way, My price for the job isn't too bad huh? I do all the development work for this, figured out how to get these trannies to stop grinding all the time and take power. Tested it provided uncontestable results. Hell I even ran it without oil just to see if it was that good and still didn't break. Still working fine to this day and no one still will even listen. I guess my efforts have fallen onto deaf ears. I give it at good price and even offer to install LSD's etc... free of charge and nothing.
thanks for pioneering a way to cost effictively build these cars for drag racing because cars like mine making 500hp can eat up a transmission rather quickly and the problem is sure to get worse as i keep raising the power level. i been following your work on k20a.org and im waiting for my own transmission to fail since i dont want to have the stock gears treated, they've already been abused and i perfer longer gearing to improve traction and eliminate the need for more shifts down the 1/4. i see i-m-p-o-r-t b-u-i-l-d-e-r-s (had to space it out)is supposed to be testing out your setup to help build your business rep up and im sure it will do just that if they find its a quality product and posts their results on k20a.org. i truely do hope it works out because its no fun spending tons of money on the same parts again and again.
 

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tranny

thanks for pioneering a way to cost effictively build these cars for drag racing because cars like mine making 500hp can eat up a transmission rather quickly and the problem is sure to get worse as i keep raising the power level. i been following your work on k20a.org and im waiting for my own transmission to fail since i dont want to have the stock gears treated, they've already been abused and i perfer longer gearing to improve traction and eliminate the need for more shifts down the 1/4. i see i-m-p-o-r-t b-u-i-l-d-e-r-s (had to space it out)is supposed to be testing out your setup to help build your business rep up and im sure it will do just that if they find its a quality product and posts their results on k20a.org. i truely do hope it works out because its no fun spending tons of money on the same parts again and again.
I hear that. I've been blowing up trannies since the late nineties and that's where I learned to build them etc.. I use to have a CRX in the 11's was a tranny eater extrodinaire. I totally agree about throwing money out the window. If you would like to see actual lab results of gearing testing done to stock gears I could def email you the info. It's rather hard to read somewhat but, once you read it all then it becomes more understandable. My only issue is that everyone looks to it to make power and free up hp and tq. That's awesome that it does but, the fact that I posted the dyno graph of the power difference was arbitrary the reason was to up the durability and improve the shifting under excessive loading which was a sucess. The Mikroniting I did not pioneer, the application and modification of the pieces inside I did though. You race competitively?

The testing for top fuel applications was a phenominal sucess! Amongst others some of which I cannot say because they are other racing venues that may not approve and I don't want to give away everyones secrets. lol.
No one has been able to find a limitation of this stuff thus far. I even ran it without oil at 100mph and I have pics of the bearing sleeves and races with no marring or anything. I was shocked. I've seen people run trannies without oil mistakenly for very short lengths of time and the result is not very pretty. :drink:

I feel sometimes like some of the guys are like lemmings once somebody goes then everyone will jump on board. Well don't do that I'm only one person I can't have 900 trannies here at one time! lol.

If you make that much power than this would be a good investment for you and you getting some gears would probably be the correct thing to do before sending it. I do guarantee that you'll get exactly what you expect out this modification. Yes, I said guarantee. We're pretty sure here and at Mikronite that you'll feel very good about making the decision after you put it in your car and make a few rips down the 1320 with some slicks and it shifts!!!!:thumbsup:
 

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i have not raced competitively mostly because of cost issues, the more u race the more u break. and also because here in nj there are a ton of fast hondas so its hard to get sponsors to help absorb the cost since the area is loaded with quick hatch backs. i built the car mostly to putt around town and enjoy the car for myself. i just had the head worked and block oringed. i am using darton sleeves and pauter/wiseco setup, looking for 400+whp. im using a cybernation turbo setup but i want to upgrade to a afi/full-race setup. when i get the upgraded turbo setup im going to shoot for 650whp and hit single digets. in the mean time if my trans takes a crap ill be hitting u up.

btw if u dont mind sending me results or your research:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm glad to finally have some discussion on this thread!!!

sohfast94, I didn't realize you were doing the mikronite treatment. I should have paid a little more attention on k20a.org! Were you located in Florida or something? I remember looking into the shipping from Michigan (big $) and that's when I started looking for other closer shops that could do it. I think Liberty's Gears might even have been mentioned and since they're 15 minutes from house, I called them. In order to have you do it, I would need to have a shop here pull the trans, ship it to you, treat it, install LSD, ship it back, and have the shop reinstall it. Sounds expensive. Is there a cheap way to ship a trans?

Also, you say cryo is bad according to pro stock guys. According to Liberty's website, they supply the trannies for every "PRO STOCK CAR IN THE NHRA POWERADE DRAG RACING SERIES FOR THE ENTIRE 2005 SEASON." Why would they tell me to cryo if it is bad!!! I not trying to knock you, just trying to learn. Please don't take anything I say in a negative way. I really want to strengthen my tranny and wasting money is not on my list. I don't race or anything, but I want to have confidence in my car.

Thanks for all your expertise!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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I'm glad to finally have some discussion on this thread!!!

sohfast94, I didn't realize you were doing the mikronite treatment. I should have paid a little more attention on k20a.org! Were you located in Florida or something? I remember looking into the shipping from Michigan (big $) and that's when I started looking for other closer shops that could do it. I think Liberty's Gears might even have been mentioned and since they're 15 minutes from house, I called them. In order to have you do it, I would need to have a shop here pull the trans, ship it to you, treat it, install LSD, ship it back, and have the shop reinstall it. Sounds expensive. Is there a cheap way to ship a trans?

Also, you say cryo is bad according to pro stock guys. According to Liberty's website, they supply the trannies for every "PRO STOCK CAR IN THE NHRA POWERADE DRAG RACING SERIES FOR THE ENTIRE 2005 SEASON." Why would they tell me to cryo if it is bad!!! I not trying to knock you, just trying to learn. Please don't take anything I say in a negative way. I really want to strengthen my tranny and wasting money is not on my list. I don't race or anything, but I want to have confidence in my car.

Thanks for all your expertise!

I will answer this just gimme about an hour I have to go to meeting.... Gotta do some work. lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will answer this just gimme about an hour I have to go to meeting.... Gotta do some work. lol
Work... Oh ya, that's what I do here! I try to have a nice balance of work (switch design engineer) and clubrsx research! All right, I'll do some work also and check back in an hour!
 

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Work... Oh ya, that's what I do here! I try to have a nice balance of work (switch design engineer) and clubrsx research! All right, I'll do some work also and check back in an hour!
As promised here I am.
Okay now first and foremost: Cryo treating
Very debatable subject some love it some hate it. My opinion on cryo is simply this and I'm quite well backed when I say that cryo treatment when used in the right application is wonderful thing. Anything that has to withstand extreme heat it works awesome such as valves! Tractor pullers use them like crazy! I'm sure everybosy has seen those fire breathing beasts! Other applications such main caps, cranks it works well for.
Now, that being said we're going to venture on over to gears, final drives or ring and pinion for the rear wheel guys and AWD too. These tend to take a lot of impact from shifting, launching etc...
I'm sure everyone has seen the catastrophes that can happen. Here's the issue cryo treatment itself works, but it tends to make the core of the metal brittle not necessarily the outer fiction edge making it more prone to impact fractures. That's why you hear a lot of when somebody loses something in a gear box or rear end it normally exploded or looks like it did because more or less the impact crossed with the friction and heat exterted from it broke from the inside out and BANG you're out a gearbox.
Alright now take your best metal finish or any for that matter and magnify it at 1000X there tons of rifts and valleys do to the metalugry process which up until this point were practically unavoidable.
Take your best machine (CNC) made billet finish and do the same test. You'll see that there is a difference yes although not as much as you would expect.
Cryo doesn't not eliminate these rifts and valleys just hardens them to make them more pronounced. Every ridden in cryo trannies? Especially straight cut gears? you'll notice there is a difference before and after in the sound of the operation.

Mikronite technologies originally developed this for heart valve finishing in an enviroment where surface tension ans finish are impairitive. Then to aerospace and finally here we are.
this has been being tested in top fuel for over two years. Ever notice when guys started going faster all the sudden and not having as many failures? Think about it.
Thus far no one has been able to find the physical limitation of this stuff. ring and pinions that were lasting one event are now making it almost a whole season! Tons of info like that everywhere.
All the ProFWD guys have it whether they say it or not. Trust me.
Anyway down to brass tax what the micronite effectively does brings the rifts into the valleys and smoothes the entire surface without effecting the original molecular orientation of the metal istelf which up until this time was unheard of. Yes, Liberty is offering it but, more on a big time comptetive level. I'm offering it to the everyday street warriors so you can remedy some of the problems of building a daily driven street demon and rip 3rd and 4th with no worries.

I'll continue. This should get some questions flowing.:weeeeeeeeee:
 

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ok you got my attention. apparently i'm in the market for a new setup myself. since switching to ITR tranny 3rd gear has been well, like "third gear on an rsx"
 

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i think i was offered 1500 to do this treatment.. if i had the money i would do it, but since i dont, i just cant afford to have this done. it does sound like a great alternative, and the pictures of the gears and shafts when done are just amazing. perhaps when i have a job that pays well, i can go ahead and get thsi done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
sohfast94, obviously you don't recommend cryo for our application. What about heat treating before mikronite?

You said your price is $1100-$1200 before labor and shipping. What am I looking at for labor cost (w/ install of LSD)? Can you sell me a Quaife or would I need to send that as well? Any recommended shipping company to ship a tranny for cheap?
 

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sohfast94, obviously you don't recommend cryo for our application. What about heat treating before mikronite?

You said your price is $1100-$1200 before labor and shipping. What am I looking at for labor cost (w/ install of LSD)? Can you sell me a Quaife or would I need to send that as well? Any recommended shipping company to ship a tranny for cheap?
No, now you're mistaking what I said. 1100-1200 fromliberty by the time it all said and done. We charge 1495 plus shipping to do it disasemble and everything. Now since I'm already there I'll instal your LSD's etc free fo charge. There's no sense charging you more except for parts such as bearings and shims if needed to install.

Now as for the heat treating. Honda heat treats their gears from the factory so there's no need in doing so again and paying for something that is already done. If they weren't heat treated they wouldn't handle as much as they already do. Look at a T5 Mustang tranny that thing will explode at 350whp.
 
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