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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok so last week I made my decition not to buy mugen lip kit and spend my hard earned $$ on my engine. So I started looking into cams and noticed... I KNEW SHIT about them, only thing i thought i knew was that they where metal sticks which drove the engine... I didn't even know what valves, valvsprings and rocker arms where. So I went sraight for the sticky and presto!!! how stuff works.com. Sweet exlination with vids and pics. I spent all night reading about engines, components, in the end just cliked and read every single link that sticky led me to. I still got a few questions though...

1) I'm thinking on getting the brian crower cams (ive been seeing many members with them so I assume they are very good ones). I really do not know the difference between the different manufacturers. If someone can tell me a brief explanation that would be great!!!

2)Another thing im confused with is the existance of stages... what exactly do they mean : the greater the stage the more agressive? The more aggressive the more your going to have to change the engine's internals?

3) My mod setup as of now is the following: I/bcrh/E, RBC IM, Hondata IMG, KPRO
I really don't plan to build a SUPERPOWERFULL n/a car but I still want to break into the 13's easily. At least be able to reach 225whp-230whp. My last tune and dyno put me at 210 with the mods I got right now. You guys think that with stage 2 cams (I have no idea what I just said but it appears to be an aggressive cam but not excessive) ill reach my goals? I read you have to change valvetrain with this setup. I have to change both valve springs and retainers with this setup, but ive heard some mention about the seat... does that have to be changed too?

4) diff between titanium and steel retainer...?

Sorry about the 1001 questions guys. tried searching for these but none of the threads where able to answer me fully. :eek:

thanks!!:thumbsup:
 

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3,263 Posts
Well, you have an 05 k20z1, so you have 2 options for valvetrain:

1. Buy new seats, seals, and valve locks to convert your head to be able to use dual valvesprings + aftermarket retainers

2. Buy supertech single valvesprings (or toda) and re-use your stock seats, seals, locks, and retainers

Stg. 2 cams are only ones you should look at. Stg 3 and up are for fully-built motors or high rpm itb set-ups

Brian crower cams are popular probably because they're very inexpensive. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad, they are just lacking a little in top-end power. I'd suggest blueprint, toda, or ips, but brian crowers aren't bad. Also, hytech makes a nice set of cams too. Best bet- search, this has been covered very in-depth plenty of times in the past :thumbsup:
 

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Breast inspector by appt.
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9,228 Posts
1. just like anything else, everybody has their own idea of who makes the best product. some are better than others, all have different price ranges, just like buying an exhaust. check the store here for examples.
2. the higher the stage, the more aggressive the cam. you can get away with the stock valvetrain on most stage 1 cams, anything else requires aftermarket springs due to the increased lift (research "coil bind"). changing internals is not necessary for most cams. stay away from stage 3 cams unless you are frequently racing the car. general purpose driving will suck as the cams are designed for use at high rpms. to get any power out of stage 3 cams internal changes will be needed as well to increase the compression ratio.
3. personally, I like my Brian Crower stage 2 cams, I haven't been to the track yet, but 13's would be cake, they match really well with the Buddy Club header. if you go this route, you have to decide on single valve springs or dual valve springs. buy the whole valvetrain kit, it will include springs, seats and retainers. if you only use single springs (I used Supertech single valve springs made for the S2000) no new seats are required.
4. the main difference is weight, titanium is lighter and could allow you to rev a bit higher, but again unless you spend a lot of time at 9000 rpms, not necessary. I reused my stock steel retainers and keepers, still going strong after 2 years.
 

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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Well, you have an 05 k20z1, so you have 2 options for valvetrain:

1. Buy new seats, seals, and valve locks to convert your head to be able to use dual valvesprings + aftermarket retainers

2. Buy supertech single valvesprings (or toda) and re-use your stock seats, seals, locks, and retainers

Stg. 2 cams are only ones you should look at. Stg 3 and up are for fully-built motors or high rpm itb set-ups

Brian crower cams are popular probably because they're very inexpensive. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad, they are just lacking a little in top-end power. I'd suggest blueprint, toda, or ips, but brian crowers aren't bad. Also, hytech makes a nice set of cams too. Best bet- search, this has been covered very in-depth plenty of times in the past :thumbsup:
Ok then I'm thinking on going with Brian Crower on this. I spoke to Chris earlier on the phone and he told me that there really wasn't much of a difference in brands and that brian crower was a very good an reliable camshaft. With regards to my k20z1 engine: I read this http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=462167&highlight=single+valve+spring and what you said is dead on wth the info provided there. Newer engines apparently do not support dual valvesprings and therefore I would need new seats (just to clarify: dual is better than single because they minimize valve float because of opposing harmonic resonance?)

Ok crsx sells the stg 2 brian crower cams + dual springs, steel retainers and seats for around 800$.http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/BC-BC0042.html SO to this I would have to add both exhaust and intake valve seals http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/FER-VLVSEAL.html (Ummm what exactly is a valve lock????)

ummm my brain is mush right now lol, but is that all I need to make this work and not have my engine blow up like 4th of july fireworks? :giggity: Are the seals and valve locks really necesarry (whatever locks are...)?
 

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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
1. just like anything else, everybody has their own idea of who makes the best product. some are better than others, all have different price ranges, just like buying an exhaust. check the store here for examples.
2. the higher the stage, the more aggressive the cam. you can get away with the stock valvetrain on most stage 1 cams, anything else requires aftermarket springs due to the increased lift (research "coil bind"). changing internals is not necessary for most cams. stay away from stage 3 cams unless you are frequently racing the car. general purpose driving will suck as the cams are designed for use at high rpms. to get any power out of stage 3 cams internal changes will be needed as well to increase the compression ratio.
3. personally, I like my Brian Crower stage 2 cams, I haven't been to the track yet, but 13's would be cake, they match really well with the Buddy Club header. if you go this route, you have to decide on single valve springs or dual valve springs. buy the whole valvetrain kit, it will include springs, seats and retainers. if you only use single springs (I used Supertech single valve springs made for the S2000) no new seats are required.
4. the main difference is weight, titanium is lighter and could allow you to rev a bit higher, but again unless you spend a lot of time at 9000 rpms, not necessary. I reused my stock steel retainers and keepers, still going strong after 2 years.

so you went with single springs then? Is there much of a difference between single and dual springs? From the looks of it switching to dual springswill be a hassle...:noes:
 

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1 up, 5 down
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1,061 Posts
so you went with single springs then? Is there much of a difference between single and dual springs? From the looks of it switching to dual springswill be a hassle...:noes:
usually dual springs have a higher spring pressure than a single spring. the spring pressure is very important when revving to 9K. if you use a spring that is too weak(oem springs) you'll end up getting valve float. and dual springs are a bit noisier than a single spring:thumbsdow

dont forget about some rdx injectors or rc440's...... im running exactly the same setup you are about to run except i have an 03 and i maxed out of my stock injectors. my duty cycle hit 97%... now with the 440's its mid 70's which is perfect.....

and to answer your question about running 13's..... i ran a 13.6 on shitty dunlops
 

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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
usually dual springs have a higher spring pressure than a single spring. the spring pressure is very important when revving to 9K. if you use a spring that is too weak(oem springs) you'll end up getting valve float. and dual springs are a bit noisier than a single spring:thumbsdow

dont forget about some rdx injectors or rc440's...... im running exactly the same setup you are about to run except i have an 03 and i maxed out of my stock injectors. my duty cycle hit 97%... now with the 440's its mid 70's which is perfect.....

and to answer your question about running 13's..... i ran a 13.6 on shitty dunlops
oh ok so you think i'll max out my stock injectors?well you apparently did! 97% wow, ok so ill just spare me the extra dyno and get myself the rdx or the RC. Whichever one I find more practical. I think RDX's are cheaper...

but I still have doubt in my mind... do I really need new valve locks and seals?
 

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oh ok so you think i'll max out my stock injectors?well you apparently did! 97% wow, ok so ill just spare me the extra dyno and get myself the rdx or the RC. Whichever one I find more practical. I think RDX's are cheaper...

but I still have doubt in my mind... do I really need new valve locks and seals?
I'd go with RDX. They have a great spray pattern compared to most aftermarket injectors. I have a set here that I'll install someday, once I get a manifold.

On 05-06 RSX's you must replace your spring seats if you go with a dual spring setup ... and you might as well replace your seals if you do the seats as you may damage the seals while replacing the seats and seals are cheap anyway.

With dual springs it is not so much that they are stronger, but--as you said before--that the two sets of springs wound in opposite directions serve to resist harmonics which can cause valve float and/or spring bind. A single spring setup would need higher spring pressure to reach the same results, and that could lead to more wear on things like your timing chain tensioner and cams. Either way can work, depends upon the trade offs you want to make.

If you go with aftermarket retainers, you will need the older style valve keepers (locks). Honda changed the angle of the locks in the later RSXs, but (almost?) all aftermarket retainers require the angle used in the first years.
 

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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I'd go with RDX. They have a great spray pattern compared to most aftermarket injectors. I have a set here that I'll install someday, once I get a manifold.

On 05-06 RSX's you must replace your spring seats if you go with a dual spring setup ... and you might as well replace your seals if you do the seats as you may damage the seals while replacing the seats and seals are cheap anyway.

With dual springs it is not so much that they are stronger, but--as you said before--that the two sets of springs wound in opposite directions serve to resist harmonics which can cause valve float and/or spring bind. A single spring setup would need higher spring pressure to reach the same results, and that could lead to more wear on things like your timing chain tensioner and cams. Either way can work, depends upon the trade offs you want to make.

If you go with aftermarket retainers, you will need the older style valve keepers (locks). Honda changed the angle of the locks in the later RSXs, but (almost?) all aftermarket retainers require the angle used in the first years.

Oh crap I just read what you said on acura changing the angle of the keepers. Ok so three more questions.

1) where can i buy the older keepers (acura?)?
2) For the seals just buy , um (4 X 4=16) 16 OEM seals for each valve from Acura?
3) I can mix and match right? What I mean by this is that I can buy the blueprint cams, for example, but use Brian Crower valvetrain instead?

:confused: thanks:thumbsup:
 

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1 up, 5 down
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Oh crap I just read what you said on acura changing the angle of the keepers. Ok so three more questions.

1) where can i buy the older keepers (acura?)?
2) For the seals just buy , um (4 X 4=16) 16 OEM seals for each valve from Acura?
3) I can mix and match right? What I mean by this is that I can buy the blueprint cams, for example, but use Brian Crower valvetrain instead?

:confused: thanks:thumbsup:
1. you need 02-04 keepers... buy them from acura.....
2. you can buy the seals from acura or they have some on here for like $30
3. yes you can mix and match cams and valvetrain but i always like to match.... and the brian crower valvetrain is specifically designed for the brian crower cams you know? but blueprint stuff is reputable and pretty much identical so that wouldn't make a difference....
 

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Heres some brain food for you...

If your going to run dual springs i HIGHLY suggest you "Fully Build" you head (better valves/flat,new seats,titanium springs and retainers) To be on the safe side of running stage 2 cams!

Make sure when installing, whoever is going to be doing it to check and than double check the Valve lash! This can make or break you... too tight and you can melt the exhaust side, too loose and you will go insane on the amount of noise coming from your vc lol

I went through 2 motors to figure this out! Dont want you to do the same...

That being said i have a set of Rcrew Stage 2 cams sorings and retainers for sale... 600 for them
 

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Sexy!!!
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686 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
1. you need 02-04 keepers... buy them from acura.....
2. you can buy the seals from acura or they have some on here for like $30
3. yes you can mix and match cams and valvetrain but i always like to match.... and the brian crower valvetrain is specifically designed for the brian crower cams you know? but blueprint stuff is reputable and pretty much identical so that wouldn't make a difference....
Thanks a million dude! I was thinking about mixing but then I thought: "anything goes wrong with the cams (eg. they break) I can't go to bluepring for waranty. They'll say I used a different valvetrain and tell me to go screw myself". SO Ill get right on it!! Ill post up my dynosheet once im done!! THANKS!:thumbsup:

Make sure when installing, whoever is going to be doing it to check and than double check the Valve lash! This can make or break you... too tight and you can melt the exhaust side, too loose and you will go insane on the amount of noise coming from your vc lol
I will be sure to double check that! Thanks for the advise!!
 

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Brevit : the soul of wit
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too much info on here

someone make cliffs of EVERY precaution for running stage 2 cams on a 05-06 Type S
 
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