Acura RSX, ILX and Honda EP3 Forum banner

21 - 39 of 39 Posts

·
1 of 1
Joined
·
5,669 Posts
Your problem is that removing just the belt from the PS pump is not the right way to remove power steering.

The car is designed to have powersteering and the rack is setup for hydraulic assistance from the pump. When you remove the belt, the pump, fluid and lines are all still connected and you are fighting a lot of resist that a normal non-assisted steering rack doesn't have to fight.

There's also other variables,

- Non-assisted racks have wider ratios (as mentioned earlier), which makes it easier to turn. The closer the ratio is to 1:1, the more the front wheels turn in relation to the steering wheel but the more effort required since there's less gear reduction. Think of it like transmission ratios, the higher the number, the less effort required from the engine but in response you have to rev the engine faster to get the wheels to move as fast as they did before with the longer ratio.

-Steering wheel size, a lot of older cars without PS had large steering wheels, think of those old pirate films with the huge ships and 4' diameter wheels. It's for assistance. If you remove the belt and have a smaller wheel (even the stock wheel is pretty small) you're going to need a bit of effort to steer.

-Other things have a factor like tire size, compound, alignment specs, etc.

To properly remove the PS from the car, you need to remove the pump, lines and most the fluid while having some left for lubrication and have a breather with a few hoses attached. The breather will allow you to turn the wheel without there being pressure inside the rack you have to fight as if the belt was just removed.

I have an EG as a daily, it's a lower model without powersteering and it doesn't bother me at all, I love the feel of it and the only time it's annoying is when I'm stopped and trying to park. As soon as you're past 5mph, you don't really notice it. The NSX-R doesn't have power steering and it's just under 2800 lbs, you can deal without it, it just has to be properly removed.

The only downside to not having it (from the performance aspect) is that if you're doing long sessions on the track and your constantly making steering corrections, your arms can fatigue and your corrections won't be as fast. This can be more difficult for people with really wide front tires and crazy alignment specs. But don't expect to just remove the belt and get an idea of how it really feels, it needs to be removed properly or left alone.
 

·
Not a Newb Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Your problem is that removing just the belt from the PS pump is not the right way to remove power steering.

The car is designed to have powersteering and the rack is setup for hydraulic assistance from the pump. When you remove the belt, the pump, fluid and lines are all still connected and you are fighting a lot of resist that a normal non-assisted steering rack doesn't have to fight.

There's also other variables,

- Non-assisted racks have wider ratios (as mentioned earlier), which makes it easier to turn. The closer the ratio is to 1:1, the more the front wheels turn in relation to the steering wheel but the more effort required since there's less gear reduction. Think of it like transmission ratios, the higher the number, the less effort required from the engine but in response you have to rev the engine faster to get the wheels to move as fast as they did before with the longer ratio.

-Steering wheel size, a lot of older cars without PS had large steering wheels, think of those old pirate films with the huge ships and 4' diameter wheels. It's for assistance. If you remove the belt and have a smaller wheel (even the stock wheel is pretty small) you're going to need a bit of effort to steer.

-Other things have a factor like tire size, compound, alignment specs, etc.

To properly remove the PS from the car, you need to remove the pump, lines and most the fluid while having some left for lubrication and have a breather with a few hoses attached. The breather will allow you to turn the wheel without there being pressure inside the rack you have to fight as if the belt was just removed.

I have an EG as a daily, it's a lower model without powersteering and it doesn't bother me at all, I love the feel of it and the only time it's annoying is when I'm stopped and trying to park. As soon as you're past 5mph, you don't really notice it. The NSX-R doesn't have power steering and it's just under 2800 lbs, you can deal without it, it just has to be properly removed.

The only downside to not having it (from the performance aspect) is that if you're doing long sessions on the track and your constantly making steering corrections, your arms can fatigue and your corrections won't be as fast. This can be more difficult for people with really wide front tires and crazy alignment specs. But don't expect to just remove the belt and get an idea of how it really feels, it needs to be removed properly or left alone.
Those are valid points - thanks for the input! You must be correct about pushing the fluid. Now that I think about it, it was far more difficult to turn the wheel fast than it was to simply turn it...

Do you by chance know if a rack designed for power steering would suffer any reliability issues if the fluid was removed? (and obviously pump was not running).
 

·
Engineering
Joined
·
25,578 Posts
do not remove all the fluid. your rack was designed to run with fluid inside it, so removing it could destroy the rack and pinion. i would suggest doing the breather hose w/ reservoir idea, it's far easier to turn than a looped hose
 

·
1 of 1
Joined
·
5,669 Posts
do not remove all the fluid. your rack was designed to run with fluid inside it, so removing it could destroy the rack and pinion. i would suggest doing the breather hose w/ reservoir idea, it's far easier to turn than a looped hose
I have it mentioned in my post about some fluid needing to be retained and yes the breather is a lot easier then looped lines.
 

·
Not a Newb Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
do not remove all the fluid. your rack was designed to run with fluid inside it, so removing it could destroy the rack and pinion. i would suggest doing the breather hose w/ reservoir idea, it's far easier to turn than a looped hose
I have it mentioned in my post about some fluid needing to be retained and yes the breather is a lot easier then looped lines.
Thanks guys!

btw, how necessary is the reservoir when using the breather lines? I mean, if you run the two lines up vertically 6 inches and then cap them each with a little air filter, will you be fine, or do you still have to worry about it squirting fluid up there?
 

·
Engineering
Joined
·
25,578 Posts
just replace the part where i looped the PS with a breather w/ reservoir :D
 

·
1 of 1
Joined
·
5,669 Posts
Thanks guys!

btw, how necessary is the reservoir when using the breather lines? I mean, if you run the two lines up vertically 6 inches and then cap them each with a little air filter, will you be fine, or do you still have to worry about it squirting fluid up there?
With hardly any fluid in there, a few hoses going to 1 breather filter setup should be fine. Just test it and go from there, but I'd imagine you'd be fine.
 

·
1 of 1
Joined
·
5,669 Posts
so what you guys are saying is that if the ps is properly removed it is easier to steer than if the car was shut off or the belt was removed, correct?
Yes, you're not fighting all that fluid and those lines and the pump.
 

·
Engineering
Joined
·
25,578 Posts
there are only 2 hoses, the return and the feed. don't use the stock reservoir, what i would do is get the clutch fluid reservoir, a T fitting, and the rest of the stuff inside my guide. attach the clutch fluid reservoir to a line connecting to the top of the T fitting, and the other 2 lines from the rack to the sides of the T. put a pinhole in the top of the reservoir so it can breathe.
 

·
O-O-O-Oversteer
Joined
·
3,702 Posts
there are only 2 hoses, the return and the feed. don't use the stock reservoir, what i would do is get the clutch fluid reservoir, a T fitting, and the rest of the stuff inside my guide. attach the clutch fluid reservoir to a line connecting to the top of the T fitting, and the other 2 lines from the rack to the sides of the T. put a pinhole in the top of the reservoir so it can breathe.
thanks! :thumbsup: makes more sense now. i'm also curious as to where you got your parts? i looked on rockauto and they dont have the bracket for the idler pulley i'd rather not go through honda because of the price.
 

·
Engineering
Joined
·
25,578 Posts
i got mine from honda
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Has anyone tried doing this whilst running on slick racing tyres mine are 235/610/17 on
9"x17" rims.I find the steering a little vauge with the power rack.
 

·
All Black Everything
Joined
·
238 Posts
there are only 2 hoses, the return and the feed. don't use the stock reservoir, what i would do is get the clutch fluid reservoir, a T fitting, and the rest of the stuff inside my guide. attach the clutch fluid reservoir to a line connecting to the top of the T fitting, and the other 2 lines from the rack to the sides of the T. put a pinhole in the top of the reservoir so it can breathe.
Bringing this from the death...

By any chance do you have pictures of this set up?
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top