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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #1
OK, I have been fighting with a high MAP signal since I installed the RBC. I had thought it was just a combination of the K2's and RBC.

Today I decided to reroute the coolant bypass lines as it is now warm enough to not worry about that, and to check the IAC rubber gasket. So I took the TB off the Karcepts adatpter and when I did I found the leak.

If you look at the first pic you will see down near the IAC port as well as up by the MAP sensor that the gasket allows air to enter thru a void that is DIRECTLY under the adapter mounting bolt head! The second pic shows the gasket removed in that area on a second TB for comparison.


I filled the void in the TB with RTV and added some RTV ontop of the bolt head on the Karcepts adapter after it was torqued back down to the RBC and installed the TB and tightened everything back down. I want to give it some time to cure before starting the car, but this should solve that nagging little problem.

I first discovered the problem trying to solve the tip-in decel jerk problem that I thought was related to needing to be street tuned a little more. I noticed that my MAP at idle seemed a little high, quite a bit higher when compared to a old datalog I found from when the PRB mani was still installed along with the K2's. I had replaced all the vacuum lines, played around with every setting in Kpro, seeing if there was any help. It was only after pulling the TB(wanted to check the rubber IAC gasket) that what I saw imprinted on the gasket hit me right between the eyes!

Doug
 

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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #2
I just had a buddy drop by that has the same Karcepts adapter, and his is leaking at the same spots!

I also checked my spare RBC/Karcepts/TB with a vaccum guage after sealing the intake runners and TB mouth, it too has a vaccum leak!

The 70mm BDL clears and seals just fine.

I had tried useing the ole' carb cleaner trick to find the leaks but it didnt work, BUT tried starting fluid with ether in it, on my buddies car and sure found it quick!
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EOS
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hmmm good find, but at least it actually fits good compared to the other adapter plates. Time to bust out the permatex...
 

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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #4
hmmm good find, but at least it actually fits good compared to the other adapter plates. Time to bust out the permatex...
Yeah, it's not like it is a major fix! Rather easy!

I just wanted to let people see that there could be a small problem and that it is easily fixed.
 

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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #9
I talked to another guy who has not had any problems. I suppose a run of the adaptors could have had the holes machined a bit larger.

The BDL 70mm has ZERO issues with the Karcepts adaptor.
 

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I talked to another guy who has not had any problems. I suppose a run of the adaptors could have had the holes machined a bit larger.

The BDL 70mm has ZERO issues with the Karcepts adaptor.
Noice, thats what i'll be running. Thanks for the info man.
 

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IPS K2 Owner #38
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im not sure what ur talking about. are the adapters on both tb's? and are u talking about the 2nd hole to the right of the iac hole?

i have one of the few wreckles adapters and the iac valve hole in the adapter is an oval so the gasket seals nicley around every opening.
 

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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #12
im not sure what ur talking about. are the adapters on both tb's? and are u talking about the 2nd hole to the right of the iac hole?

i have one of the few wreckles adapters and the iac valve hole in the adapter is an oval so the gasket seals nicley around every opening.

Where it is leaking at, is thru the recesses for the bolts that are for mounting the Karcepts to the mani. These recesses overlap the edge of the TB and also overlap a void in the TB casting, the stock gasket actually exposes the corner of the void. It is very easy to see the areas that were leaking in the first pic, the imprint of the recesses from the adapter are very visible in the gasket.

I have a spare Karcepts that had been installed and leaked, I will post up some more pics later.
 

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I was slightly concerned about this area when I first designed the adapter; but after testing and observing no leaks (and still none today on my personal vehicle), I had not addressed it within the installation instructions. Obviously, the simple fix is a little silicone in the desired spots. I know that some users may not get the TB flange surface super clean and the old gasket removed (as that can be a bit of a pain), so in those cases, a leak is more prone to occur. Thanks for showing this, as I will just go ahead and update the instructions for those who want a little extra security such that it doesn't happen to them. Maybe I can find a little tube of silicone to provide with each adapter in the future as well. Sorry again for having to deal with this problem...
 

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Anything fast and brutal
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Discussion Starter #15
I was slightly concerned about this area when I first designed the adapter; but after testing and observing no leaks (and still none today on my personal vehicle), I had not addressed it within the installation instructions. Obviously, the simple fix is a little silicone in the desired spots. I know that some users may not get the TB flange surface super clean and the old gasket removed (as that can be a bit of a pain), so in those cases, a leak is more prone to occur. Thanks for showing this, as I will just go ahead and update the instructions for those who want a little extra security such that it doesn't happen to them. Maybe I can find a little tube of silicone to provide with each adapter in the future as well. Sorry again for having to deal with this problem...

TALK about customer service...WOW!

I only posted this as a FYI, so far I have seen about a 50% split in those that have a problem to those that dont.

It's all part of the experience! LOL
 

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so is this problem prevalent with stock Type-S Throttle bodies? I am soon to install my rbc and i wonder what i can do to prevent this.
 

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After inspecting this area on my own vehicle (having installed the adapter over a year ago), I did not see quite the issue that talonxracer had. My gasket was not at all mangled in the area of question; hence, why I have not observed any leaks. I do see the potential for issues, as the area is questionable; but I firmly believe if the flange surface of the throttle body is spotless (free from old gasket material), and you are using a new gasket for this application, the chances seem very slim to have any leaks occur. Regardless, these are the precautionary steps you may want to take:

Assume you have just bolted the adapter onto the intake manifold (Note: no intake manifold in pic... :( I'm waiting on some gaskets from Honda in order to show the whole process more in depth for the Installation Instructions):


Apply some high temp silicone sealant into the bolt heads/counter bores shown:


The lower left counter bored hole is of the main concern (as was talonracer's issue), but there could be potential problems on the upper right counter bore, so you might as well do both of them while you are at it. Install your new PRB gasket, clean any excess silicone that may have spewed out, and then bolt on the throttle body. I would not recommend filling in the void in the throttle body on the other side of the gasket as talonracer recommended, as there could be potential for sucking in silicone/gasketing material into your engine. That most likely wouldn't cause any major issues, but it just isn't necessary, as the counter bored holes will be the culprit of any potential leaks. The void on the PRB throttle body is normally open even when used in conjunction with a PRB intake manifold.

Hope that helps to clear things up...
Brian Karwan
Karcepts, Inc.
 

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One race car :(
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nice, thats what I was looking for before tackling this myself. Now if I could just get my car back from the body shop..
 
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