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Hustla Supreme
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Discussion Starter #1
Alright everyone. I dyno tuned today and I am running unbelievably lean and I need to know what to do ASAP because I have to fix this like now.

The owner of the shop didn't even want me to run my car any more because of my air/fuel ratio.

What route should I take right now? Larger injectors with AEM fuel rail and new fuel pump or will the VAFC be able to add enough fuel?

Please help - Here's the numbers!
 

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Hustla Supreme
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639 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
It was looking good to start with and then VTEC engagement gets scary lean. At about 8000rpm the fuel mixture becomes a little better.

I can't believe I have this problem. What did I do to my ride?
 

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frank and beans!
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well, if you knock sensor isn't retarding timing & throwing codes, then you're probably fine.

that one run went WAY lean though, so that could be a problem.

larger injectors would be a start, but honestly, just try putting in a v-afc and see if you can tune it to be a little less lean w/o losing power.
 

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ILikeFastCars&FastWomen
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I think an air fuel controller should do the trick
 

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I thought in said in your profile that you have a MOTEC stand alone???????

Why is this an issue if you have a MOTEC stand alone??????? I'm sure at 200whp you still have room with your factory fuel pump and fuel injectors, just make the adjustments....... :dontknow:
 

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Hustla Supreme
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Discussion Starter #6
Bigbuyer2477 said:
I thought in said in your profile that you have a MOTEC stand alone???????

Why is this an issue if you have a MOTEC stand alone??????? I'm sure at 200whp you still have room with your factory fuel pump and fuel injectors, just make the adjustments....... :dontknow:
I was in the process of doing that upgrade but haven't decided on a reputable tuner because I know I cannot tune it myself. Right now I am just Hondata #4 with I-H-E and ES MMs. I really want the MOTEC but I have to find someone that knows what the hell they are doing since I don't.

I might try a VAFC for now
 

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Hustla Supreme
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Discussion Starter #7
Bigbuyer2477 said:
I thought in said in your profile that you have a MOTEC stand alone???????

Why is this an issue if you have a MOTEC stand alone??????? I'm sure at 200whp you still have room with your factory fuel pump and fuel injectors, just make the adjustments....... :dontknow:

What type of ajustments can I actually make to the stock fuel system? Can I add fuel without a computer?
 

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pimplayahustla said:
I was in the process of doing that upgrade but haven't decided on a reputable tuner because I know I cannot tune it myself. Right now I am just Hondata #4 with I-H-E and ES MMs. I really want the MOTEC but I have to find someone that knows what the hell they are doing since I don't.

I might try a VAFC for now
And you are running that lean???????

I'd just have it sent back to Hondata and have them fix the problem.........
 

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pimplayahustla said:
What type of ajustments can I actually make to the stock fuel system? Can I add fuel without a computer?
Not really.

You can change fuel pressure, or change the injector size, but that would not work properly without changing the programming. Honda runs a MAP based fuel injection system, and so the ECU tunes base on manifold pressure reading from the MAP sensor, RPM, temperature, load and maybe a host of other sensor readings. Unless you can manipulate your MAP readings without adding additional electronics, you would almost have to use aftermarket tuning devices.

You were in the process of upgrading to Motec or were you just thinking about doing it? I saw that in your sig and I thought to myself, "what the F$%^ is he talking about!!!"
 

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Hustla Supreme
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Discussion Starter #10
I was thinking about going all the way and being able to tune with a lap top for any given situation/mod.... I know! I shouldn't have put it in my profile with me not actually having it. I was defiantely prepared to drop big dimes on engine management because I feel there's still more horsepower to be pulled. Hondata gets a call from me.

I even told them I was running really lean before they flash programmed my computer -They had my damn car and saw everything I had done to it. DAMN!
 

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pimplayahustla said:
I was thinking about going all the way and being able to tune with a lap top for any given situation/mod.... I know! I shouldn't have put it in my profile with me not actually having it. I was defiantely prepared to drop big dimes on engine management because I feel there's still more horsepower to be pulled. Hondata gets a call from me.

I even told them I was running really lean before they flash programmed my computer -They had my damn car and saw everything I had done to it. DAMN!
I don't know, but usually when they reprogram the ECU they simply change the target values the ECU is suppose to hit in open loop. Perhaps their pre-programmed targets produced a different result in your engine tuning, maybe your car flows a little better than the cars they used to calibrate their programming. I still think Hondata should rectify the problem for you.
 

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frank and beans!
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Bigbuyer2477 said:
I don't know, but usually when they reprogram the ECU they simply change the target values the ECU is suppose to hit in open loop. Perhaps their pre-programmed targets produced a different result in your engine tuning, maybe your car flows a little better than the cars they used to calibrate their programming. I still think Hondata should rectify the problem for you.
not to be an ass, but I think you mean closed loop, not open loop.
 

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Hustla Supreme
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Discussion Starter #13
I'll see what they say man. Being that I live in Phx it would b easy enough for me to make a road trip and take my car back to them if they're willing to do a customized flash for my car. I believe my car flows really well no doubt considering I have light modifications done AEM CAS, header and TCS exhaust which isn't the straightest cat-back exhaust.

If I was running open header I could very well have had some serious problems. I'll need to decide on what I have to do as soon as possible and get it done. The last thing I want to do is drop $6K on a new K20
 

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pimplayahustla said:
I'll see what they say man. Being that I live in Phx it would b easy enough for me to make a road trip and take my car back to them if they're willing to do a customized flash for my car. I believe my car flows really well no doubt considering I have light modifications done AEM CAS, header and TCS exhaust which isn't the straightest cat-back exhaust.

If I was running open header I could very well have had some serious problems. I'll need to decide on what I have to do as soon as possible and get it done. The last thing I want to do is drop $6K on a new K20
get a used k20 for 2000


I would think a SAFC would take care of your problem easily.....just get the car tuned....btw is that the reading from a wideband?
 

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ILikeFastCars&FastWomen
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RsxManJoe said:
get a used k20 for 2000


I would think a SAFC would take care of your problem easily.....just get the car tuned....btw is that the reading from a wideband?
Yep, as simple as that. Or wait for the programmable from Hondata. I don't think it would make much sense to buy the MOTEC stand alone if you already have a hondata flash, the K pro will only be $500 for the upgrade.
 

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chunky said:
not to be an ass, but I think you mean closed loop, not open loop.
No, closed loop is when you are feeding off sensor reading to MAINTAIN a certain level of tune. when you are cruising in light throttle, for instance, you are in closed loop. When you are in warm idle, you are in closed loop. The A/F ratio is usually held to Stoich in closed loop, and drops when you go into WOT open loop. Open loop will ignore some sensor reading and tries to achieve the programed values.
 

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Did this happen after you intalled your race header and exhaust if so it is normal and start with a VAFC or SAFC and dyno tune it to fix your crazy lean situation. It is not Hondata's fault because their ecu was not programmed to run with race headers and a race exhaust. I believe this is happening with Hondata#4 because I think they leaned out the settings around VTEC engagement to get rid of the stock VTEC dip. I have the same situation after 5200 rpm where I would run leaner than usual, but because I dont have a race header, my air:fuel ratio does not go pass 14.
 

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RsxManJoe said:
btw is that the reading from a wideband?
I don't think that matters. His readings were well within the factory narrow band's range.
 

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Vendor
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MmmotorNutz said:
Did this happen after you intalled your race header and exhaust if so it is normal and start with a VAFC or SAFC and dyno tune it to fix your crazy lean situation. It is not Hondata's fault because their ecu was not programmed to run with race headers and a race exhaust. I believe this is happening with Hondata#4 because I think they leaned out the settings around VTEC engagement to get rid of the stock VTEC dip.
You win the prize for the most astute observations here today. The situation is caused by the race header which leans out in this area. We do not remove any fuel from the stock program in this area though.

pimplayahustla. I suggest you get a quote for tuning your MOTEC from scratch - especially developing the VTC cam angle tables. Then make sure you , or your tuner is booked in for our training seminar next month. We can tell you exactly what to do. Tuning will make your car run a lot better.
 
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