Acura RSX, ILX and Honda EP3 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Great post!

What would you recommend I do with my car, in regards to strut/sway bars?

I have:
- Eibach Pro-Kit springs (1" drop)
- SPC camber kit
- Tokico HP series Struts
- The Driveshaft Shop custom made axles.

My wheels are 17x7 inch Work XSA 02C Mighty with a set of Kuhmo Ecsta AST (205 45/R17). I plan on getting some nice rubber once these die on me.

Obviously my rubber isn't the greatest, but money is tight atm and I intend to wear them for another season.

I've got an engine swap, not sure if that matters, weight or what not. (Clearance issues?)

My intentions for handling are to have lots of control through some tight corners, nothing too hardcore. All my driving is controlled street stuff. Just some fun at normal speeds. I don't want anything too jumpy. I like a little comfort. Do I even want sway bars?

Thanks for the help!
Daniel.
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Soft low springs with soft shocks with someday good tires, I would leave the the front stock and up the rear bar.....25mm to 27mm....
 

·
Member member
Joined
·
3,136 Posts
hollow is stiffer then solid btw. its tough to compare stiffness from various manufacturers based solely on outer diameter. other factors to take into account are the grade of steel used wall thickness and the design of the bends.
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
hollow is stiffer then solid btw. its tough to compare stiffness from various manufacturers based solely on outer diameter. other factors to take into account are the grade of steel used wall thickness and the design of the bends.
A very general statment but over all it can be true or not.....you can even get in to the shape, the 02-04 dc5r bar is 25.5mm hollow but it has the same stiffness as the 02-4 dc5s with a 23mm hollow. The reason is the type-r bar has a longer lever arm than the type-s because of the lca shapes....
 

·
Member member
Joined
·
3,136 Posts
A very general statment but over all it can be true or not.....you can even get in to the shape, the 02-04 dc5r bar is 25.5mm hollow but it has the same stiffness as the 02-4 dc5s with a 23mm hollow. The reason is the type-r bar has a longer lever arm than the type-s because of the lca shapes....
that was in reference to this statement.

I am running the 25mm solid cusco bar that should be about as stiff as a 27mm hollow
as stated in my post they are number of factors that determine stiffness, it was sort of a disclaimer so that no one thinks that a 25mm from company a is automatically stiffer the a 22mm from company b
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
that was in reference to this statement.



as stated in my post they are number of factors that determine stiffness, it was sort of a disclaimer so that no one thinks that a 25mm from company a is automatically stiffer the a 22mm from company b
Having run both progress 22mm and 24mm rear bars, I will tell you the cusco 25mm rear bar is stiffer then the progress bars.:thumbsup:

I have thought about going to the hotchkis 27mm rear bar but at this point, I can get the rear around anytime I need it to.
 

·
Member member
Joined
·
3,136 Posts
Having run both progress 22mm and 24mm rear bars, I will tell you the cusco 25mm rear bar is stiffer then the progress bars.:thumbsup:

I have thought about going to the hotchkis 27mm rear bar but at this point, I can get the rear around anytime I need it to.
again, that's changing more then one variable.

if i have two swaybars, both made of the same material and having the same outer diameter, the hollow will take more force to cause deflection.

so the cusco isn't stiffer simply because it's solid.
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
again, that's changing more then one variable.

if i have two swaybars, both made of the same material and having the same outer diameter, the hollow will take more force to cause deflection.

so the cusco isn't stiffer simply because it's solid.
two words.......wall thinkness.........thats what you have to look at. Say I have a 25mm bar that has been rifle boared with a 5mm bit(10mm wall thickness). Is it stiffer that 25mm solid bar? How about a 25mm bar with 1mm wall thinkness?

Anyway.....as long as you do not do something stupid with the wall thinkness.....

Maximum shear stress (tm)=(Torque [T])/Polar moment of inertia (Ip)
tm=T/Ip

substituting r=d/2 and Ip=Pi*d^4/32 you get
tm=(16T)/(pi*d^3) for a solid bar

For a hollow shaft, Ip =(pi*r^4)/2

Assume an inner raduis of .6r for the tube.
for the solid bar, the Ip = .5*pi*r^4

and for the tube Ip= (pi*r^4)/2 - (Pi*(.6r)^4)/2
= .4352*Pi*r^4

therefor the ratio of tm is .5/.4352 = 1.15 or, more plainly, the tube is 1.15 times stronger than a solid shaft, given the same outer diameter, and material.

So you are are right.....
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
actually you were right, mustclimb.

i found this article on the subject
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Hollow%20vs%20Solid%20Swaybar.pdf

i was confusing torsional strain with shear stress.

solid > hollow
Cool, me to......My basic math sence was telling me I was right but I found some math that told me I was wrong.....basic math sence tells me that if you want to test something, take it through the extrems. Take a solid bar and try to twist it. Then take that solid bar and rifel drill it, is it stiffer because you removed metal?

One thing you will notice about me, I admit when I am wrong.


On another note....I wish there was some way to find out if the hotchkis 27mm hollow bar is stiffer than the cusco 25mm solid bar... :run:
 

·
Late Apexer
Joined
·
5,962 Posts
On another note....I wish there was some way to find out if the hotchkis 27mm hollow bar is stiffer than the cusco 25mm solid bar... :run:

It will be about the same, given the hotchkis bar has 2 adjustment points. From my half assed calculations, the "soft" setting is ~ the strength of a 25mm solid bar. At less then half the weight.
 

·
Still Double Clutch Demon
Joined
·
569 Posts
JDM ctr sways??

Damn musty u got some knowledge man and it's greatly appreciated. I've been confused on JDM ctr sways. Are they the same as the type s? or no cuz of the slightly wider front. So if u know the exact mm for front and rear would be awesome!!
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
witch ctr....ep3 or dc5?
 

·
Still Double Clutch Demon
Joined
·
569 Posts

·
Still Double Clutch Demon
Joined
·
569 Posts
damn...just got the type r rear sway from icb. 22mm is gonna be awesome vs the 16mm SI. i was just under the car measuring!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Hai ... dumbass newbie question:

Stock EP3 front sway (25.4mm hollow) vs EM2 front sway (15.9mm ... sold??)

Is it a worthwhile upgrade to soften up the front end for more grip?

//edit: shut my mouth, just read that the EM2 is hollow ...
 

·
ride height Nazi
Joined
·
7,601 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Hai ... dumbass newbie question:

Stock EP3 front sway (25.4mm hollow) vs EM2 front sway (15.9mm ... sold??)

Is it a worthwhile upgrade to soften up the front end for more grip?

//edit: shut my mouth, just read that the EM2 is hollow ...
not a dumb question.....but I would need more info on your setup to reply. Sways are used for fine tuning handling. When ever possible, you should use spring rates to control body roll, not sways. Sways are grip reducers, if you are looking for more gip in a turn, sways are not the tool to use. Your thought to use a smaller swayin the front is a good one, you want as small of a sway as possible on the drive wheels....but, if the grip of your tires is overpowering your springs to the point that your camber is going positive, then you need to up the springs or up the sways.
 

·
Member member
Joined
·
3,136 Posts
grm article regarding tuning with sway bars.

link here

like mustclime said, they should be used to fine tune your suspension after you have the tires, springs, dampers, and alignment you wish to run. they are not "upgrades", but selecting a bar that compliments your suspension can result in a more responsive car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Sways

Another newb question.
This sway bar talk is very confusing. I was reading the post titled "Factory type-r frame brace project ". This has to be the most interesting post I have read, 8+ times. I noticed a member in ottawa was in the process of stock piling these parts, as am I. He also had DC5r 22mm rear sway, Is this a good choice for DD and some hotdoggin. I currently have,
Tein Basic
Rota Attacks with Exclaim UHP 215/40/17
Stock alignment
Lowered 1.5"

Thanks. Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
I was talking to Eibach and they told me that for the 02-04 DC5 their rear sway is 23mm solid, and 05-06 their rear sway is 25mm hollow.

They told me the 23mm solid is stiffer (not by much) but not recommended for the 05-06 dc5 cos "it's not designed for it".

I thought all years dc5 and ep3 can interchange rear sway bars. True?
 
21 - 40 of 58 Posts
Top