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I appriciate all your help but I don't think this is the solution. I'm actually thinking it's internal because the issue is in 5th and 6th gear. At the beginning when it wasn't so bad the lower gears were fine but 5th and 6th were just didn't take. As the issue has continuously gotten worse, the 5th and 6th gears seem to be affecting the lower gears in some capacity. After staying in lower gears for a while everything shifts fairly smoothly but as soon as I go into 5th or 6th the problem immediately comes back and is there until I've rowed through the lower gears for a while. Don't want to bleed the clutch fluid, and then find out that it didn't solve anything, only to have to purchase more from Acura. I'll end up taking it to a transmission shop and having it rebuilt, it already needs a rebuild due to 4th and reverse grind. Once I have more information I'll post an update on what the cause is/was.
I don't think the low gears and 5th and 6th are affecting each other as you explain.

You understand that the gears can't grind when you are standing still, unless the clutch is not releasing. So that means either a) the clutch hydraulic system is not operating properly or b) the mechanical parts of the clutch are damaged.

It would be good to eliminate the simple fixes, first. The fluid and master.

Beware of a shop that tells you that you need a new clutch but it was the master cylinder that was the problem. They'll replace both and you'll never know if you really needed the clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
I don't think the low gears and 5th and 6th are affecting each other as you explain.

You understand that the gears can't grind when you are standing still, unless the clutch is not releasing. So that means either a) the clutch hydraulic system is not operating properly or b) the mechanical parts of the clutch are damaged.

It would be good to eliminate the simple fixes, first. The fluid and master.

Beware of a shop that tells you that you need a new clutch but it was the master cylinder that was the problem. They'll replace both and you'll never know if you really needed the clutch.
You have a good point, and I understand that each gear is independent to each other, but all I know for certain is what I have experienced. And without a doubt, 5th and 6th are far more problematic than any other gears, and 3rd is by far the least problematic. If it were really a clutch related issue, why would 5th and 6th be more problematic than 1st - 4th?
 

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You have a good point, and I understand that each gear is independent to each other, but all I know for certain is what I have experienced. And without a doubt, 5th and 6th are far more problematic than any other gears, and 3rd is by far the least problematic. If it were really a clutch related issue, why would 5th and 6th be more problematic than 1st - 4th?
Good point. I was wondering the same thing. I can't tell you exactly, but maybe it has to do with the complexity of the whole gearbox. The drive gears and driven gears are different diameters for each "Speed", some of the gears may be straight-cut and some beveled. The gears are rotating at different speeds when you are moving. All those differences may affect the severity of the symptoms that you are experiencing.

Lastly, the syncros. Syncros help the gears mesh and prevent grinding. So to a certain extent, the syncros can overcome a certain amount of clutch drag. So maybe the syncros are able to work in some gears, but not all gears. Beware, the more you drive in this condition, the more wear there will be on the syncros and the clutch.

REMEMBER. The gears can not grind if the car is standing still and the clutch is doing it's job.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Good point. I was wondering the same thing. I can't tell you exactly, but maybe it has to do with the complexity of the whole gearbox. The drive gears and driven gears are different diameters for each "Speed", some of the gears may be straight-cut and some beveled. The gears are rotating at different speeds when you are moving. All those differences may affect the severity of the symptoms that you are experiencing.

Lastly, the syncros. Syncros help the gears mesh and prevent grinding. So to a certain extent, the syncros can overcome a certain amount of clutch drag. So maybe the syncros are able to work in some gears, but not all gears. Beware, the more you drive in this condition, the more wear there will be on the syncros and the clutch.

REMEMBER. The gears can not grind if the car is standing still and the clutch is doing it's job.
Yeah the 4th synchro is bad but the only gear that grinds at a standstill is reverse, which, from what I understand, does not have a synchro. The clutch feels the same as it always has, same biting point and no troubles stalling. And sometimes, it will be perfectly fine on startup like it was after I adjusted the clutch. However without fail, after I go into particularly 6th gear, that noise comes back, and it's hard to get into any gear. I end up babying the clutch in 3rd because that's the only gear I can get it into. It's worth noting the the sound only comes In when the clutch pedal is ~70% engaged, and gets louder until you get to full engagement, at which point it's extremely loud, as it was in the video I posted. Do these facts not challenge the likely hood of this being a clutch related issue? I know I said it was a blown clutch earlier but I really have no idea this is my first manual car, and I haven't been able to find anyone reporting the same scenario anywhere.
 

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Yeah the 4th synchro is bad but the only gear that grinds at a standstill is reverse, which, from what I understand, does not have a synchro. The clutch feels the same as it always has, same biting point and no troubles stalling. And sometimes, it will be perfectly fine on startup like it was after I adjusted the clutch. However without fail, after I go into particularly 6th gear, that noise comes back, and it's hard to get into any gear. I end up babying the clutch in 3rd because that's the only gear I can get it into. It's worth noting the the sound only comes In when the clutch pedal is ~70% engaged, and gets louder until you get to full engagement, at which point it's extremely loud, as it was in the video I posted. Do these facts not challenge the likely hood of this being a clutch related issue? I know I said it was a blown clutch earlier but I really have no idea this is my first manual car, and I haven't been able to find anyone reporting the same scenario anywhere.
Hmmm. Sorry. Maybe I'm not understanding everything
  • In your video,
    • the car was moving or stopped???
  • You say that the grinding noise only happens after you start to let the clutch out.
    • Do you mean that when the car is moving and you move the shift lever from one speed to another speed, there is no noise?
    • But then as you let out the clutch, the grinding starts and it gets louder?
  • Regarding reverse. OK. The car is stopped, Right? Then you put the lever into the R position. Does the grinding start then, or after you let the clutch out?
 

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If you going to get it rebuilt drain the fuild into a clean bucket and check for metal in it use a magnet and run it through the fluid. If there isnt any metal I would give it a shot on changing the fluid back to honda green label and see if that helps seems like your synchros aren't lubed. Also how much would a full rebuild run on the type s trans if you know? Because it might be cheaper to get a used one and if money isnt a issue you should get the lsd 6speed from a type r.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Ok so the sound in the video is not gear grind, it's something entirely different. The video is with the car parked e brake engaged. The sound only happens with the pedal is engaged 70% or higher and the car is in a gear can hear is just barely at 70% and gets louder as you depress it more. Doesn't always happen, but as I said, it always happens after I come out of 6th until I go through some lower gears again. Reverse grind happens going into the gear regardless of clutch position at a complete standstill. I know and understand that it will grind guaranteed if the car is rolling backwards and that is not the issue.

I have not priced out a transmission rebuild locally but I expect it to run around 1500-2000 based on research. If I had it done I'd probably have them do synchros all around and clutch and whatnot. Money is some concern but It's not like I won't be able to have it taken care of. I was thinking of a used transmission but I'm worried about the risk of putting a used transmission in and having it be in poor shape, or even if it was a used rebuilt transmission putting trust in unknown people to have properly rebuilt the transmission. Even if there was a warranty on the trans there would be no warranty on the labor as a trans swap is way past of my skill level. I would certainly love an LSD and was actually considering shelling out $750 for a new one and having one put in during the rebuild, the one tire fires in turns are real for sure. I checked for metal shavings with a flashlight both times I drained the fluid but did not run a magnet through it, seemed like there was a little bit in there but nothing outrageous.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Update: So the car left me stranded. Got off the highway and wouldn't go into gear. If I tried to force it into gear it would kill the engine, if I tried starting it up in gear it would kill the engine. Ended up having to start the car in gear while gasing it and letting off the clutch at the same time. Kept it until first to the next parking lot and started calling transmission shops.

Called about 10 transmission shops and only one said they would even open up a manual transmission, most stating that it's not worth the money to have it done and then offered to "find me a rebuilt one to put in" of course none of them could find one. The only shop that was down to open it up and rebuild it quoted me 12 hours equaling $1300 in labor, everything else would be parts. Had it towed to them and expecting a bill around $2000. Had it towed to them and they're working on it now. When I have updates on what all is wrong in the transmission I'll post another update.
 

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1300 is alot. I would look for a used one or find a part out and swap either the 5sp or the 6so in
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I do not have many options here. My only other option would be to source out my own trans and have a shop put it in, which was looking to be as expensive or more. It's a well known commonly praised shop with a two year warranty so I feel like this is my best move in the end. Also time is of a bit of an essence as this is my daily
 

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Yea just seems kinda odd how you did your trans fluid and it blew your transmission. I would maybe try to go back to the honda mtf and see if that helps before spending 1300$
 

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With all due respect, maybe it's just me, but after all your explanations, I wonder if the problem is a linkage, the clutch master or slave cylinder, a worn or damaged clutch or a worn or damaged transmission. Again, maybe it's just me, but after trying to help you, I gave up because your solutions were all over the place. Fluid, Clutch, Transmission.

THAT SAID...

I know you're under the gun because this is your daily driver, but if one tells l an auto repair shop..."I want you to replace my transmission" you open yourself up to excessive costs or doing unnecessary repairs. They are the "experts". Let them decide what work you need done. i.e. You have to let the shop do their job. In California, an auto repair shop is obligated by state law to 1) provide a written estimate and 2) do the stated repair, at the stated cost (+10% if necessary). If that doesn't solve the problem, then they must give you your money back or redo it right. Granted, that can become a drawn out process.

Just describe your symptoms and get a written estimate. Get 2, preferably 3 estimates. In fact, maybe one shop will just refer you to the right shop for a relatively inexpensive fix.

Good luck
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Really the deal is that this is my first manual transmission, and I am learning throughout this whole problem. Don't think the trans fluid really created the issue, it was just poor timing that the clutch went out right after the change. The shop has already confirmed that the clutch is toast and I believe that this is the only reason that the car is undrivable. I contacted every shop within a 30 mile radius of where I had to leave it, and only one would rebuild a manual transmission. Many offered to find a rebuilt unit, of which none of them could find one through their means. Not only was time of the essence, but distance was too, as I had to have the car towed at this point. I could have had it taken to a shop where they put in a flywheel and clutch kit and I'm sure it would have worked just fine. The deal is that the transmission has always needed some work and I felt that if I was going to put the money out to have it pulled off, I want all the issues fixed, primarily the grind in 4th and reverse. I have seen rebuilt units online but the warranty situation was not ideal, and the overall cost would have been higher. Not trying to troll any of you just experiencing all of this for the first time and I do appreciate all of the help you guys have tried to provide. The car is being worked on as we speak so there is no going back on my decision.
 

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Really the deal is that this is my first manual transmission, and I am learning throughout this whole problem. Don't think the trans fluid really created the issue, it was just poor timing that the clutch went out right after the change. The shop has already confirmed that the clutch is toast and I believe that this is the only reason that the car is undrivable. I every shop within a 30 mile radius of where I had to leave it, and only one would rebuild a manual transmission. Many offered to find a rebuilt unit, of which none of them could find one through their means. Not only was time of the essence, but distance was too, as I had to have the car towed at this point. I could have had it take to a shop where they put in a flywheel and clutch kit and I'm sure it would have worked just fine. The deal is that the transmission has always needed some work and I felt that if I was going to put the money out to have it pulled off, I want all the issues fixed, primarily the grind in 4th and reverse. I have seen rebuilt units online but the warranty situation was not ideal, and the overall cost would have been higher. Not trying to troll any of you just experiencing all of this for the first time and I do appreciate all of the help you guys have tried to provide. The car is being worked on as we speak so there is no going back on my decision.
The clutch!! Sounds good.
Did you get a written estimate?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Estimate was not written but this is a locally well know shop that has a reputation of good service. They charge by labor and parts, labor being a book time of 12 hours ~ $1300
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Sorry I was waiting until I got the car back to put down the official diagnosis. The clutch was completely blown. unsurprisingly, I had them rebuild it as well. 2nd and 3rd had rounded edges a large chip on all the gear teeth so 2nd and 3rd entire gearset was replaced. Theres $1000 in parts right there. the snap ring on 4th gear had completely disintegrated leaving metal shards collected on the magnet which caused the 4th grind. and I imagine causing many of the other issues I was experiencing near the end. 2nd and 3rd actually felt more or less fine. no insane grinding but occasional 3rd pop out so I was astounded when I saw the actual damage they had taken. Fully rebuilt and on the road now shifts like a dream!
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I almost don't want to talk about the price because I know I could've gotten it done cheaper but the provide a full warranty and I trusted their work. They essentially double charged on the clutch but all the other parts were priced accurately and they quoted 7 labor hours for clutch + 6.4 for the rebuild at $110/hr total came out to $3500
 

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Discussion Starter #60
This just happened to me. The snap ring on 4th gear had disintegrated and the clutch went out
 
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